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Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

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Eltreato
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Eltreato » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:46 am

Very interesting Radrduke, thanks You're right, no racing for me, but I was wondering about driving hard upwind.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Eltreato » Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:51 pm

Update: So I took everyone's advice and got a short mast. So far I love it. It got me two for two sessions in waist deep shallows I would otherwise have been on a twintip. Breaching hasn't been an issue and the board is way easier to body drag with. Bottoming out on chop hasn't been a big deal eitherm. Everything is so much easier on the 60cm mast. I can't wait to get out again on this setup. Thanks for all the recommendations.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Foil » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:21 pm

I love my 61cm mast and even used it yesterday in 30knts winds with reasonable size waves , but low tide issues along with super shallow water through the head high waves as your walking out trying to knock you back, so I was not sure about using the 61cm as the waves were big but the depth of water was not good for my long mast, so out I went hoping for the best, and to my surprise it was great, lots of bending of the knees to get over the short high chop which did remind me of snow skiing in a mogul field, speed upwind was fast enough and turns felt good even though I was slapping a few wave tops, the front wing held on easily even though it did come to the surface a few times, downwind on my 6 MTR was less scary than my 101 mast that I changed to after a few hours of the tide racing in,
I think the short mast forces you to work harder to keep your height level where the long mast is easier but flatters your mistakes, so it's good for developing your skills as you do need to be more skilled to get the best out of the short mast, when I first started out with a short mast with very little skill I did not get on with it as I could not maintain level flight or recover from the wing breaching the surface, now I can, And as my skill improves I think I will be using the 61cm mast even more than I do now,
I am getting a 71cm mast next week and will decide which of the 2 short masts I will keep, I do love the options the shorter masts give me, some of the best waves are close in to shore😎
Last edited by Foil on Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby UKSurf » Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:54 pm

I would say definitely get a 60cm Mast I have one for my Liquid Force foil. Ontop of being able to use it in shallower water it is alot easier and safer than a full length mast. You can also breach without getting wiped out.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby salvino » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:31 pm

Foil,
I like what you’re saying. I’m thinking of getting a large area surf wing set up to use on a short mast, probably 71cm. I love a high 100cm mast on my MHL lift, but this is 120cm all around wing. I believe the progression of development and skill is towards a shorter mast for wave/swell riding with small kites.
I’m eager to hear reports from those who have begun this exploration!
Sal

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby slowboat » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:09 am

salvino wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:31 pm
Foil,
I like what you’re saying. I’m thinking of getting a large area surf wing set up to use on a short mast, probably 71cm. I love a high 100cm mast on my MHL lift, but this is 120cm all around wing. I believe the progression of development and skill is towards a shorter mast for wave/swell riding with small kites.
I’m eager to hear reports from those who have begun this exploration!
Sal
I respectfully disagree. Short mast are good for learning/shallow water/severe onshore conditions but otherwise are worse for wave/swell riding. In fact, longer than standard masts are better. As the waves get steeper and faster, the extra mast length really helps prevent hitting the surface and ventilations. You will love using a surf wing in waves, but skip the short mast.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Foil » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:45 am

slowboat wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:09 am
salvino wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:31 pm
Foil,
I like what you’re saying. I’m thinking of getting a large area surf wing set up to use on a short mast, probably 71cm. I love a high 100cm mast on my MHL lift, but this is 120cm all around wing. I believe the progression of development and skill is towards a shorter mast for wave/swell riding with small kites.
I’m eager to hear reports from those who have begun this exploration!
Sal
I respectfully disagree. Short mast are good for learning/shallow water/severe onshore conditions but otherwise are worse for wave/swell riding. In fact, longer than standard masts are better. As the waves get steeper and faster, the extra mast length really helps prevent hitting the surface and ventilations. You will love using a surf wing in waves, but skip the short mast.
I agree, but as I have mentioned when its shallow the long mast is not an option, so if you sail in an area where the tides really do cause shallow water issues then a short mast is the best option and great fun, also in difficult onshore winds where at times I have not been able to get deep enough to get a start then the shortie works well, and Like I mentioned earlier some of the waves sets in shallow locations are so good and if you only have a long mast you will miss out on some great sessions in waist deep water.
but yes the long mast in deep water and wavy conditions is so much better.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:14 am

Agree with slowboat, for any small or big wave or chop riding, the longer masts are used.

The short one will be good if you got a spot with ONLY shallow water all over.
We dont, we always got deeper water further out, so no need for a short mast for normal riding.

But as said many times, if marginal dead onshore winds (say 5-8 knots depending on your kite), the only way to be able to "fly", meaning start and get out to deeper water, is having a sufficiently short mast, 80 cm or less.

This is why the shorts mast are used very rare, but WHEN they are, they are worth it IMO, as these are days you will remember, being able to fly in almost nothing and the most beautiful weather :thumb:

Nothing has changed lately regarding this over the last years, apart from bigger wings being used now also, IMO.

I think the misconception (as it is IMO) about the short masts for waveriding, comes from the SUP foils, where they are often needed and it is a different concept in other aspects too.

A few will of course always love one or another in waves, ie supershort or extra long mast, but I honestly do think the really short ones are not what many will choose in anything but the "too low water" scenarios.

Might be wrong, just my input...

8) PF

PS: Yes, the fun waves are often close to shore over the lower sand banks, but you dont need a shorter mast for this, as you are up foiling :D
Only if you make a mistake and fall, okay you have to body drag a bit (not much) to slightly deeper to get up foiling and start again.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby salvino » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:51 pm

I hear both sides of whether a shorter (71cm vs 91cm) mast may be better suited for swell/wave riding, but I only know one side: that is on longer mast but with freestyle/smaller wing.

I’m trying to envision how the surf/sup wing may lead to paradigm shift into how the hydrofoil is ridden and hence making a shorter mast more applicable. It seems that shorter mast might lead to better angles in the pocket and on the swell, where a longer one leaves the rider a bit removed from the energy of the moment. This may lead me to spend the $ to find out.

Anyone have any first hand knowledge of this?

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:36 pm

I hear that.

What is the ideal wing depth for small waves and swell ? How high does the rider want to be off the water before they feel like they are too far removed.

Wave foilers will also want the easiest package to get through the break and out the back.

Sir V, longtime wave foiler who actually rides decent sized waves likes 70cm. Says its more reactive to carve than anything longer.


https://youtu.be/CwAInoWLBXA
Last edited by jumptheshark on Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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