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Another DIY foil

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:08 pm

Greetings Tom,

welcome to the club.

Once you have placed your order you need to buy some stuff to get the printer running.

IKEA has LOTF mirrors in a six pack. The glas plate supplied with the printer is usually not straight. Replace this with the IKEA stuff.
Find yourself FR4 at ebay or amazon 0.8mm thick. Use this as your building surface instead of fancy stuff offered from printing shops for a zillion.
Sand the top surface of the FR4 with 320 grain till it is not glossy anymore and forget edge warping for the next decade.

20 seconds before I jumped out of the window I found I guy that explained me why the mold could not be printed flat but has to stand upright. Some math stuff.
You should try to talk your boss and I understood that you have a printer at work, into the purchase of a S3D licenses. You can run two machines on one license.
Cura drove me nuts and I could provide you my fff file that works excellent.

Vakuum or not, no clue. The problem is that the mold is nothing then a thin shell. If you rip here or there the thing will blow apart. I can not even give you a word that the thing is airtight.
You gonna be a pioneer. Let's discuss that once the printer hits sweden.

One last thing you should consider, all computers are not good friends with printers. Unexpected updates, hard disks that fall asleep and wreck your 30 hour print.
I use an octopi for my prints. The kit is around 50€ and the setup can be done in 30 minutes from a person that can follow a youtube video.
I would purchase an "old" CR-10, invest the saved money into a octopi and a dinner with my girl.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby direnc » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:43 pm

Hi Kosta,

Awesome thread! I myself was considering 3d printing some wings. I know epoxy does not bond to PLA, but how about ABS or HIPS ?
For a recreational foil, I guess one can get away with an imperfect wing profile.

Also, how do you decide how much to thin a profile, and why at all?

Thanks for sharing the Devcad wing tools. It's a wing builders dreams come true. At the moment I am using fusion 360 with this plugin, which is good enough:
https://apps.autodesk.com/FUSION/en/Det ... n&os=Win64

Thanks a lot!

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:24 am

Greetings,

the plugin for Fusion looks good. I have to check this.

I never tried printing in ABS. It has a lot of shrinking, warping, you need to have an enclosure to keep the temperature constant and the worst, the fumes are very toxic. So no print at home. From what I heard you need to accept of failure before you get something ussuable in hand.

There is a guy at FB doing what you plan in PLA. Send me a PM and I will link you to him.

Where I see a serious problem printing a positive wing instead of making mockups is that you will not be able to vacuum bag. The vacuum will turn your wing into toast shape. Secondly and this is the worst problem, you need to paint your wings with a color that has a high albedo, white, to prevent to PLA to melt. Additional thickness
Furthermore you will not be able to cure the epoxy. You need to show the resin +60° for some time. PLA will not stand this

All this are serious points.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby lupociotto » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:05 am

hello,

extremely interesting thread.....yesterday I just stopped myself buying a printer in the last second.....(loads of other projects...that don't get further due to time shortage...).

just to let you know - a friend of mine made a printed foil this way, very much on the simple end, but there might be ideas with it that fit at least for a intermediate foil or sup / surf foil with thicker wings:
-positive printing of the core but wit a poriferous / open structure, in this way the resin can get a good glued connection to the resin / laminate, even with core materials that normally don't stick to epoxy.
-then normal (no vacuum bagging) lamination only with glass.
the foil at least was strong enough for the guy to learn with it (front wing and strut have been made like this), now he is happy with my 2016 levitaz element.

to refine this idea (poriferous) I would suggest:
- for a big thick high volume front wing like sup foils this will bring the possibility of lightweight construcktion (outside poriferous, inside like honeycomb ?).
- lamination even with vacuum bagging would still be possible with a thicker wing, by supporting the wing with a supporting construction like done when vacuum bagging surfboards without stringers.

regards

wolfgang

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby jakemoore » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm

kostantin wrote: The Cr-10 is printing like a boss.
Kosta, are you printing the carbon molds directly?

There was an interesting thread on Reddit regarding hollow core carbon bicycle frames. Was using PLA to make a mold. And using PVA to make a plug alternative to a bladder that washes out with water.

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:08 am

jakemoore wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:10 pm
kostantin wrote: The Cr-10 is printing like a boss.
Kosta, are you printing the carbon molds directly?

There was an interesting thread on Reddit regarding hollow core carbon bicycle frames. Was using PLA to make a mold. And using PVA to make a plug alternative to a bladder that washes out with water.
No, I print the mockups and pull fibremolds from the mockups. You can not seriously print carbon.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:33 pm

Now I'm confused.

I thought Kosta was printing the molds and was going to mold the CF into the mold.
I'm making a small part now to test it.

The other way, you print a wing, to make a plug, then make a fiber mold from that plug sounds fairly conventional.

Kosta, does epoxy melt the PLA?
Epoxy I use does not need 60c cure. It will cure at room temperature. Yes, it is not as extremely strong as 60c cured, but it should be acceptable.

My thinking has 2 avenues:
1. Make wing in epoxy SLA printer, in parts, and glue together using 3D tinted fixture.
Hand Laminate 6 Oz glass to stabilise.
Then vacuum bag on CF using low vacuum.
I am guessing this will work, but be less accurate wing. Won't matter with low speed wings.

2. Like Kosta ( i believe) , make mold directly in 3D printer in PLA. Mold will be made in sections or halves depending on how big printer you have.
Glue mold sections together and mount on plywood or mdf plate to strengthen.
Carefully prepare mold surface with surfacing paint and sand smooth.
Laminate CF into mold halves by carefully cut layers of CF until mold half is filled.
Put the whole mold and laminations into v-bag.
Once both halves are made, glue the halves together somehow...

I was thinking that method 1 was a way to fairly quickly test a concept, method 2 would be to build a more robust and accurate wing.,

Thanks for the Fusion Plugin!!

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:37 pm

I made this small part on Fdm today to test method 2.
DSC_0001.JPG
I made these parts on epoxy SLA to test method 1. These parts will need 2 more internal ribs to make it a bit more stable. My foils need to be redrawn based on that Plugin..
DSC_0002.JPG

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:47 pm

I think a cnc would be better tool for this. There's kits for 1200-2000 usd that could cut softtools for struts, wings and fuselage.

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby naishdude » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 am

When specialists meet, even if I do not understand all of it, it is nice to read how the kettle gets cooking, and experiences are shared into this melting pot!

Finally an interesting thread even if I am not into foiling at all!!

nice
:cool2: dude


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