Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8726
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 pm

Interesting thoughts here...

But one thing where I dont agree - I dont find the shorter masts more agile at all, on the contrary...
WHEN up and flying that is :thumb:

As discussed in another thread, when you go down to say 70 or 80 cm it is not possible to ride as free and hard in carves, as with 90 or 100 cm masts.
Unless you will tolerate a slight touchdown of part of the board now and then - which is the crucial difference - I will never tolerate this, I will feel like a total failure if my board touches the water or wave ever so slightly even with just a small part :(

Some dont mind this, and might even have the board down ON the surface occasionally, when carving or riding waves, and then I can see the shorter masts might work really well indeed.

But if you dont want this (touching the water), the longer masts are by far more agile as you can lean harder and carve better with these :thumb:

To the original question - yes it might be very different when surface riding, but as you are on an adventure and going towards more and more flying, you just have to take the slightly different surface riding into account - and enjoy the higher agility and carving ability and more fun in chop and waves, and riding higher, the longer masts will give you :rollgrin:

The longer mast is not more difficult to balance either, when foiling.

8) PF

Big Wally
Medium Poster
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2016 3:31 pm
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: Tanzania
Favorite Beaches: Wherever there is Blue water
Style: Ocean only
Gear: Undecided
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Big Wally » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am

Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8726
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:29 am

Big Wally wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am
Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW

No reason to slow your kitedive, just put a bit more weight on your rear foot and voila you are there even with power on the longest masts.

It is your "muscle memory" that has gotten used to riding a supershort mast, and this will feel more like without a mast :naughty:

8) PF

User avatar
Laughingman
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2849
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:35 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Kp, MBay, Rond
Favorite Beaches: Kp, MBay, Rond, Long Bay, Cayo Guillermo, La Ventana
Gear: Ocean Rodeo Gen6 Flites 10m, 12m Gen2 Roams 6m and 8m, Gen4 Prodigy 5m and 7m
Xeon Laluz, Mako Wide 150, Mako Classic 150, Jellyfish Custom surf board quad fin 6', LF Impulse Foil and Galaxy board
Engine Harness and sliding
Location: Southwestern Ontario

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Laughingman » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:12 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:42 pm
Interesting thoughts here...

But one thing where I dont agree - I dont find the shorter masts more agile at all, on the contrary...
WHEN up and flying that is :thumb:
8) PF
Well I think it would be fair to point out that surfers on hydrofoils prefer the shorter mast and if they are not agile I not sure who would be?

I understand what you are saying though, the tendency to lean back against the kite is hard to break and very difficult with a short mast especially if there is chop and that is definitely easier with a long mast but if you are riding more upright and trying to catch swells etc.. the short mast works great.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8726
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

I hardly never lean back (that is for racing only), I lean forward in tight turns like surfers in lay down bottom turns, and this is the "holy grail" for me and what it is all about very often.
But of course, when turning back on the wave (like a cutback) I lean back - and again - length is needed unless you are superman IMO.

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:

Riding upright ?
Sounds just boring....

8) PF

Foil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Moses wings 590 and 548
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Foil » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm

[quote=Peter_Frank post

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:
[/quote]


I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:

eddiemorgs
Rare Poster
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:30 am
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: North
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby eddiemorgs » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:18 am

Foil wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm
[quote=Peter_Frank post

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:


I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:
[/quote]

I think its a bit if an ask to measure your improvement against if you touchdown or not . Certainly you will do it less as you improve . I ride very short chop conditions a lot in Darwin , often needing to use more than the length of the foil , so I am not too fussed if I touchdown .
In fact sometimes I will do it on purpose in some situations .

I kinda believe learning could have more tricky on a short mast in our conditions .... but will stand corrected .
I rode a 600 mast the other day in fairly choppy conditions and found it really annoying , constantly adjusting .. suppose thats pretty obvious

You just need to spend time on the water and it comes together bit by bit .

I have been doing it for a year and can carve foil gybe heel and toe side , ride waves and now feel quite at ease with out having to concentrate too much .
Although sometimes it reminds to watch the water conditions :D

Just time on the water mate , that’s all and don’t overthink it

eddiemorgs
Rare Poster
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:30 am
Kiting since: 2010
Gear: North
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby eddiemorgs » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:33 am

Big Wally wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:44 am
Thank you Eddie. That is exactly what I’m feeling with the Long mast vs the short one is the weight difference. So I guess just slow things down including kite dive to give the longer/heavier mast a chance to catch up?

Thanks in advance.

BW
No worries Big Wally .

It’s not so much that you wait for it to catch up ... by starting in a slightly more back weighted position the whole kit will keep up with you better is what it is about

Eg I went from my carbon gear 6.5kgs to an old liquid force foil - must have 2 x the weight and kept going over the front on the launch , couldn’t believe how much I had to lean back to make it work .
If I has used the same position on my jshapes it’s would have chucked me off like some of the young horses I have trained back in the day :o
It was a pig of a thing but this experience is a demonstration of what i am talking about in relation to what you are experiencing.

And , it will be the same for everyone with every change they make to their gear . New settings again .

Yeah, and same kite dive , dont change that. Just your body position , but when up and foiling you may have to adopt a more forward stance according to what the foil requires

Cheers

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8726
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:14 am

Foil wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm
Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

But as said before, pretty sure now, the misconceptions to one or the other side comes between those who can accept a slight touch(down), and those who can not, thus VERY different likings appear :naughty:

I wonder how long will it take me to get good enough to hardly never touch down, when I can claim that then I know I must be a good foiler, next year maybe? :-?
maybe, just maybe, I can dream :wink:

Foil, I dont say I dont touch down much - I do it extremely often, at my level, in missed transitions.
Especially because when you have learned something okay, you typically start trying to learn something new you can not do, right ?

But when carving or riding around making turns on or up and down the wave, I usually never touch the water or wave with any part of the board.

This will come in time the more you ride, is not really about skill (talent) like transitions or tricks are, but more TIME and time on the water, and it comes automatically :thumb:

My point is still, that some dont mind the occasional touch with the board, and they might use a shorter mast, others dont like this and want to turn harder without touching, so using a longer mast.
Two different individual "preferences" that somewhat can reflect the choice of mast length.

8) PF

Foil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 372
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Moses wings 590 and 548
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Going from Short Mast to Long mast Advice

Postby Foil » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

Thanks peter,
phew, I did think you were saying you never touch down which would be some distant target for me to think about, now you have explained it I understand.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: pitbulldoug and 4 guests

cron