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Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

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Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby Foil » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:52 pm

after 3 days in a row using the Onda pump wing and downloading the data from my TomTom Gps watch and trying fairly hard to push the speed I have 3 days of comparisons, I know this is a question in many minds, many presume it will be dog slow, well now I can confirm my findings, all speeds were made using a 101cm mast and the sea state varied from choppy and challenging, smooth swell and roller coaster style, and today smooth and fairly flat.
the results -

Today using a 12mtr V4 Ozone Reo--mega light wind(had to launch hot launch style and keep it on the move at all times)
As I was pushing the top speed I needed to back off a little as the wing was protesting by feeling jittery, and unwilling to go faster without a fight.-35 kmph/19 knts/22mph


The other two days were more challenging conditions where I was using an 8mtr kite and the top speed was slightly less at 30kmph

Top speed on the 71cm mast was recorded over a full week of use in similar water and wind conditions, the top speed shown was less at 25kmph( but the short mast is pretty useless for speed as you are close to the surface, and you back off as it feels wrong to try and push the speed, cranking it through the turns however feels very quick, much faster than when using the long mast which likes to carve a longer arc (but that might be just me) sailed back to back (long mast V short) aggressive S turns in small chop confirmed the short mast was way more agile for my style of sailing, however the long mast allowed way more power to be used in fast wide arc kite loops for hard and satisfying deep angled carves.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:54 pm

"Frozen" Frank managed to get 49 km/h on it, but what is completly different in this wing is also the acceleration, lets say the 0-40km/h its longer.

For me what is impressive its stall speed, i didnt measure but im sure its less then "walking" speed.

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North 2018 click bars
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby Foil » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:22 pm

stall speed feels unreal, walking pace for sure, and to pop it back up from a stall needs little input compared to the standard 550 front wing.

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jakemoore
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby jakemoore » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:18 am

So what's the stall speed?

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gmb13
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby gmb13 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:55 am

jakemoore wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:18 am
So what's the stall speed?
About 6 knots for a 82kg person.

--
Gunnar

tomtom
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby tomtom » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:19 am

Stall speed is as slow as you want :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVegcCcMNS4

I always liked it slow:
I never liked it fast
With you its got to go:
With me its got to last

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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby slowboat » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:47 am

I don't think claims of a stall speed are valid unless there is a uniform standard on how it is measured. One can stay on foil at 1-2 mph if you have enough lift from the kite.

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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby Sandras » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:52 am

Stall is not a function of speed.
Stall happens at a certain angle of attack.

What is meant above is that at that speed, you need such a high angle of attack to support your weight (minus the kite lift) that this angle of attack is critical - stalls.

I assume that gunnar said 82kg meaning no kite support, especially considering it's a SUP wing!

slowboat
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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby slowboat » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:12 pm

Sandras wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:52 am
Stall is not a function of speed.
Stall happens at a certain angle of attack.

What is meant above is that at that speed, you need such a high angle of attack to support your weight (minus the kite lift) that this angle of attack is critical - stalls.

I assume that gunnar said 82kg meaning no kite support, especially considering it's a SUP wing!
Fair enough, if we are talking about no kite support. But I stand by my comment if a kite is involved (reasonable assumption since we are on Kiteforum and also discussing top speed). Kiters want to know how slow they can go with a particular foil when they are considering a foil's performance characteristics.....my only point was using speed numbers for this can be misleading since you have to consider how much lift the kite is contributing. Now, if someone said my foil will lift me during a water start when my speed hits 10 knots with my kite lines at 45 degrees, then that is more meaningful and can be used to compare to another foil.

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Re: Top speed of a Moses 633 SUP wing combo (the Onda)

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:36 pm

slowboat is spot on, with a kite the stall speed can not be "claimed" - makes no sense at all.

If one should use a scientific claim that could be used, it should be the polar max lift coefficient for the whole setup (actual wing not profile so also induced lift loss included) which is a unitless value that can be compared fully.
Even better, the polars for the whole setup at given Reynolds numbers - THIS could be awesome.

But I dont think anyone really got these values...

They are the ones we "feel" ourself when we change to a different wing of the same area, and can feel a difference in stall speed and recovery.

With recovery I think of the way some low AR wings can easily be recovered as they still have some lift above the stall point AOA.
Whereas other higher AR wings with thin low drag profiles, will stall very suddenly and very difficult to recover.

It is the classic "performance/agility/ease" tradeoff :naughty:

8) PF


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