Kiteforum.com

NYKiter wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:23 pm

What message are Slingy and LF sending that they have to go to competitors and incorporate their wings?

Are they not innovative enough to come up with their own?

I think the message they are sending is that they are working to grow the sport by supporting smaller businesses and individuals with good ideas instead of trying to defend mediocre products with patent lawyers. I’m not sure I see how this is a bad thing, but to each their own. No one has expertise in hydrofoils yet, the technology is too new, and for a while longer, the best ideas are going to be coming out of peoples garages, if those people can work with an existing company instead of having to also build masts and fuselages and their own brand, it is better for everyone.

tmcfarla wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 3:31 pm

NYKiter wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:23 pm

What message are Slingy and LF sending that they have to go to competitors and incorporate their wings?

Are they not innovative enough to come up with their own?

I think the message they are sending is that they are working to grow the sport by supporting smaller businesses and individuals with good ideas instead of trying to defend mediocre products with patent lawyers. I’m not sure I see how this is a bad thing, but to each their own. No one has expertise in hydrofoils yet, the technology is too new, and for a while longer, the best ideas are going to be coming out of peoples garages, if those people can work with an existing company instead of having to also build masts and fuselages and their own brand, it is better for everyone.

I agree completely! In addition to encouraging and popularizing smaller innovative wing designers, when Wheeler and Cloud IX use Liquid Force patterns and measurements for their wings, it moves the industry closer the kind of compatability that you see in skis and snowboards. Wouldn't it be great if in a few years masts, fuses, and wings were all compatible in their connections to each other?

Other examples of how it works:
Levitaz is a spin-off or branch of a larger engineering firm, thats' why they have the type of metal fuselage they do.
Ketos, too, has a relationship to a larger manufacturer, but a composites one, hence little metal in their products.
Ketos is still a top quality, small shop though, and do nothing wrong in my eyes.
I guess Levitaz is small too, judging from the pricing, their market cannot be really big.
Bottom line, most companies bridging design/engineering, manufacturing, and retail marketing do have relationships to other related firms.
And that's ok. revhed sure did hate the first generation of LF foils though.
They really did suck compared to their newer ones and to some foils made by others with more experience, and they grabbed enough market to make it harder for little guys.

BWD wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 pm

revhed sure did hate the first generation of LF foils though.
They really did suck

And even more sucking for guys who bought them because of L F "hype" marketing and now know they suck and can not resell.
If the "funny foil" was so great as L F claimed it was, why discontinued?
And yes they do disclose their design workings now that they have some R + D cash form all those rip off "funny" sales!
R H

revhed wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 7:29 am

BWD wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 pm

revhed sure did hate the first generation of LF foils though.
They really did suck

And even more sucking for guys who bought them because of L F "hype" marketing and now know they suck and can not resell.
If the "funny foil" was so great as L F claimed it was, why discontinued?
And yes they do disclose their design workings now that they have some R + D cash form all those rip off "funny" sales!
R H

i learned on LF foil, and have no complaints whatsoever about it. does it suck compared to others? i don't know, but i know the price was better than most and was all i was willing to pay to see if i wanted to actually get into foiling. seemed to work for me. maybe you're one of those guys that needs the best, you know, like the beginner skier who shows up to the mountain with $10,0000 worth of equipment...but can't ski. i suspect someday i might end up with a top-o-the-line foil, but i'm glad LF stuff was available when i needed it.

jkrug wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 12:26 pm

revhed wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 7:29 am

BWD wrote: ↑

Mon May 21, 2018 7:54 pm

revhed sure did hate the first generation of LF foils though.
They really did suck

And even more sucking for guys who bought them because of L F "hype" marketing and now know they suck and can not resell.
If the "funny foil" was so great as L F claimed it was, why discontinued?
And yes they do disclose their design workings now that they have some R + D cash form all those rip off "funny" sales!
R H

i learned on LF foil, and have no complaints whatsoever about it. does it suck compared to others? i don't know, but i know the price was better than most and was all i was willing to pay to see if i wanted to actually get into foiling. seemed to work for me. maybe you're one of those guys that needs the best, you know, like the beginner skier who shows up to the mountain with $10,0000 worth of equipment...but can't ski. i suspect someday i might end up with a top-o-the-line foil, but i'm glad LF stuff was available when i needed it.

Same. I wonder if its crappy handling made me a better foiler, or just makes me appreciate really good foils....?

I got mine second hand and I sold it on for someone else to learn on. So, got resold twice

And it's still "mast".

- LF has a patent for aluminum foil masts, which Slingshot had to buy right to recently. So there's R&D there.
- Slingshot Hoverglide while heavy is a good their own gear
- LF Fish beaten the crap out of foil pricing making it more available to majority of kiting crowd. In just couple of years we're down from $2200 for a foil to $600 for one
- Crazyfly resells Moses too and that's ok
- Slingshot went through reselling MHL Lift, LP Composites to Moses and that's ok as they're a large shop in US. The last year move to sell 2016 576 and 2017 600 race wings is a bit of nuts move, considering how popular the 550 and 548 were with freeriders and how racers really want the latest/greatest but I guess it's a lesson for Slingshot guys to learn. They must have bet on jumping or swept all remains of old gear Moses could offer
- Moses distribution in US is kinda small compared to Slingshot - and it was an excellent move to get a foot into the market and lure folks away to Moses

Kamikuza wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 1:25 pm

I wonder if its crappy handling

And it's still "mast".

Crappy handling a "funny foil"

Yes it is still mast in English for the ignorant!

R H

revhed wrote: ↑

Tue May 22, 2018 5:16 pm

Crappy handling a "funny foil"

R H

That makes even less sense than insisting it's always "strut" and never "mast".