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Marginal wind kites ?

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Séb
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Séb » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:00 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 2:46 pm
I am buying one (an ultralight Kitech FRS 12 m2), to see if I can move my marginal low end - we'll have to see if it does or dont :thumb:

8) PF
27g material? I love my 12m but yes it would benefit from a lighter material in the 12/15/18m range. I like it so much that i am leaning toward a 9m or 6m soon.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:17 pm

Yes, full 27 g/m2 :thumb:

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby tomtom » Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:48 pm

I dont know if they make UL version, I have normal one 9 and it weight 1,7 kg kite + pulleys + bridles after month of daily use and couple of times in very salt water but no sand - i just put it on kitchen scale. But Peter just to set your expectation right. This kite will not have 11-12 foil race kite power spike. It has very nice power in loops it keep power and speed in turns but it isnt race kite. I have big HF and need very little power. So if you need 12m race kite power spike to get going maybe you will be disappointed. This kite generate power more like LEI which suits me.
IF I order kite again i will buy black background with yellow and red cross. I saw this one live in Croatia - Slovenian distributor flew it and it was super nice looking. I switch my kites with my wife and recently son and it is important for me to easy distinct my kites on water. Do you guy really think that UL is make any difference? Because i think that fabric is already very thin. About same thickness than SOUL - which looks very different to all other foil kites - like siliconized and thinner than Ozone R1V2 - which looks heavier. Also bridal on soul was very thin and i have a LOTs of problem due self tangle - some lines make loop to itself and shorten themself ca. 5 cm. When its just one line it isnt easy to spot while launch but its enough to make kite unstable and dangerous.
Kitech has normal bridle lines like braided skin with core and never do that. I dont want save some weight and drag for potential safety problem. Im not racing. I think that AIR mass traped in kite is much dominating factor to kite reaction but maybe im wrong. Also in mediterran sun air in kite is very hot and now im believer in hot air baloon effect which keeps kite stable on zenit. I has very surprised about air temperature in it. It was like 60-70 hot. If you Peter really buy 12 - im very interested in your opinion because i think we have something in common in kite needs. Or maybe not and its just my interpretation :)

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:58 pm

I know it is not race kite powerspike, so time will tell if it works for me or not...

Maybe too little power, but low weight is key to keep it in the air to get out, and I also ride with bigger wings and board in marginal wind like you do tomtom.

It will never be used in more than max 7 knots, so thats why I dont need stronger material but low weight :D

8) Peter

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:16 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:17 pm
Yes, full 27 g/m2 :thumb:
Good call :)

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:18 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:58 pm
I know it is not race kite powerspike, so time will tell if it works for me or not...

Maybe too little power, but low weight is key to keep it in the air to get out, and I also ride with bigger wings and board in marginal wind like you do tomtom.

It will never be used in more than max 7 knots, so thats why I dont need stronger material but low weight :D

8) Peter
You can use it comfortably in much more then 7 knots

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:12 pm

tomtom wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:58 pm
Yea, but it just sound like you mean - "its bad kite". And FOR FREERIDE it is exact opposite, its best from what i flown. But hey I dont measure VMG, i measure fun :)
I must admit that i didnt flown Hyperlink because I was concentrate to fly SOUL as everybody rave about it. FRS for me is much better than Soul. I even think that Soul is primary TT kite not a foil kite. I flied kites for 20 years and im not seeking for easy kite. I have own many foil kites in past. Imo to make good wave/carving kite that follows you in the turn a react on slacked lines is as hard as make good race kite. Race foil kites cannot be depowered/slowed down while sending redirecting - other than back stall - which cannot be used for power dosing. So they are not pratical for foil freeride. You never see Greg Dexler on race foil kite. Not everybody wants crank upwind 60 km/h.
Its not a bad kite, its actually a very good easy kite, maybe one of the best in that "area". But this threat is about Marginal wind kites, and a normal cloth 12m FRS wont be very marginal, the Ultralight version will be better but not sure there is enough power to get you up on the board in less then 6-7 knots.

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby tomtom » Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:58 am

Maybe i dont get the marginal wind idea. I can HF FRS 9 as soon as it STAYS on zenith. In less wind it still stays on zenith but it flyes back and fore lower in window. I was riding with beach wind meter reading 5-6 knots. Underpowered but flying HF. Only other guy who can ride was guy on 19m2 R1 V2 - and there was A lot of guys waiting. But i think this speaks more about Moses Onda low end than FRS low end. But about low end stability it flyes stable on on any ocasion where 19 R1 V2 flyes maybe little more as it is inherently more stable and agile due to AR.

about wind.
For me to 4 knots - its no kiting.
4-5 is super marginal riding with very special equipment
5-6 is normal marginal - ridable with competent equipment
7- and more are Light wind ridable with LEIs but without deep water restart possibility

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:25 am

tomtom wrote:
Mon Jul 16, 2018 8:58 am
Maybe i dont get the marginal wind idea. I can HF FRS 9 as soon as it STAYS on zenith. In less wind it still stays on zenith but it flyes back and fore lower in window. I was riding with beach wind meter reading 5-6 knots. Underpowered but flying HF. Only other guy who can ride was guy on 19m2 R1 V2 - and there was A lot of guys waiting. But i think this speaks more about Moses Onda low end than FRS low end. But about low end stability it flyes stable on on any ocasion where 19 R1 V2 flyes maybe little more as it is inherently more stable and agile due to AR.

about wind.
For me to 4 knots - its no kiting.
4-5 is super marginal riding with very special equipment
5-6 is normal marginal - ridable with competent equipment
7- and more are Light wind ridable with LEIs but without deep water restart possibility
4 knots -> super competent riders with 19m/21m, manouver fail = swim
4-5 -> Competent riders with 19/21m, slightly more forgiving on the manouvers
5-6 -> Good riders with 19/21m, good power on the 21m, you can crash as you like. All freeriders with "smaller" kites and "struggling" to go, very competent riders can go in freeride gear.
7 -> Powered to race on 19/21m, can already go on 17m. Underpowered in 12m LEIs and freeride foil kites.

:)
Last edited by Pedro Marcos on Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Marginal wind kites ?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:41 am

It is useful to put numbers to illustrate but shall be considered as relative comparison and not absolute wind speed. IMO it is not transerable to each one of us when below 6... as there might be up to 3 knots difference with the same wind measured in different ways ... (Experienced between Official winds-up meter at 10m height vs manual potentially pessimistic anemo like vaavud). So better to speak relativelly comparing kites abilities by back-to-back testers.


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