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High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:28 am
by jash999
I have read a lot on this forum about the 633 wing and how you can ride in super low wind. No one has a 633 at my beach so I can not try it. I have only tried the 683 once, which compared to my 590 does have a lot more lift, so to compensate I had to ride with my back foot a few inches further forward of normal, with feet close together. I am using Moses T60 board. This was in wind around 10 knots.

My question is: if to compensate for the increased lift from a big wing I have to either move back foot further forward or I have to use a smaller kite (in marginal winds this can create its own problem) what is the exact benefit of the 633 vs 590 for a rider who is not heavy ( I am 75 kgs ) and not riding in waves? If I need to reduce the lift from the kite to compensate for increased lift from the wing, what am I gaining by using 633 vs 590?

Can someone who has first hand experience tell me so I can decide if it's worth the price tag for me?

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am
by Foil
jash999 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:28 am
I have read a lot on this forum about the 633 wing and how you can ride in super low wind. No one has a 633 at my beach so I can not try it. I have only tried the 683 once, which compared to my 590 does have a lot more lift, so to compensate I had to ride with my back foot a few inches further forward of normal, with feet close together. I am using Moses T60 board. This was in wind around 10 knots.

My question is: if to compensate for the increased lift from a big wing I have to either move back foot further forward or I have to use a smaller kite (in marginal winds this can create its own problem) what is the exact benefit of the 633 vs 590 for a rider who is not heavy ( I am 75 kgs ) and not riding in waves? If I need to reduce the lift from the kite to compensate for increased lift from the wing, what am I gaining by using 633 vs 590?

Can someone who has first hand experience tell me so I can decide if it's worth the price tag for me?
good question!
and I can answer this from my perspective, yesterday for example the wind was low but enough for my 9mtr, I was at Rhosneigr, a well known wave spot,
however it was flat in the morning, this made the wing choice for me the 633 to practice my foot switches as its so forgiving and will keep flying when i need to really slow things down,after an hour I was fed up of continually falling in and needed a rest, so came back in and swapped my 633 set up for my 637 race wing set up on the standard fuse,
the instant I got up and flying across the flat water a big smile came to my face, I was thinking good god, this thing is so fast and buttery smooth, going into flying gybes to toeside was exciting as the speed had to be kept up,
but fast, stable and smooth was the feeling, however when I tried to play on the little waves on the outside of the bay I lost my smile, this wing was not like the 633 which just loves waves, and soon after trying to get the maximum speed from the 637 on the flat water closer to shore, I changed back to my 633, to continue trying flying foot switches,
the 637 was not going to help me as quickly as the 633, getting back on the 633 I immediately tried to push its top speed to compare the feeling, and it was then I really noticed how much harder it was to do this compared to the 637, and of course they feel so so different in every other way.

I will be back out tomorrow and if there are waves left over from today's storms the wing of choice will be the 633 as it beats any other of the moses wings in the waves for me, its simply awesome allowing you to do things you cant even think about trying with the other moses wings, I never think about stalling the wing, as it is really hard to get it to stall, it more sinks very slowly, and when you breach the 633 it makes a noise but recovers so easily without drama.

If I only sailed on flat water and could pull off all the moves I aspire to do then the 633 would not be on my list of wings to have.
I have access to all water states and will be learning new moves for many years and for these reasons having two totally different tools -the 633 and the 627, is ideal for me.

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am
by cwood
The other thing to note is that the 633 and big wings that came from Surf and SUP line are a problem for the geometry of the fixed mast on the standard Moses boards. They require a big shift in center of gravity forward...beyond a standard footstrap location. If you are going to use them a lot then you really need a board with tracks so you can adjust the mast rearward.

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:00 pm
by Foil
cwood wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am
The other thing to note is that the 633 and big wings that came from Surf and SUP line are a problem for the geometry of the fixed mast on the standard Moses boards. They require a big shift in center of gravity forward...beyond a standard footstrap location. If you are going to use them a lot then you really need a board with tracks so you can adjust the mast rearward.
So true,
and you can get this done for around £150 at a custom board shop like I did, its not a must do, as I used my T60 for a few months happily sailing around with my feet closer together than in a normal stance, but now I have tracks on the T60 I would recommend the same for all T60 owners who want to swap mast position,and not footstrap position, not to mention the 633 wing.

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 am
by jash999
Foil wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am
jash999 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:28 am
I have read a lot on this forum about the 633 wing and how you can ride in super low wind. No one has a 633 at my beach so I can not try it. I have only tried the 683 once, which compared to my 590 does have a lot more lift, so to compensate I had to ride with my back foot a few inches further forward of normal, with feet close together. I am using Moses T60 board. This was in wind around 10 knots.

My question is: if to compensate for the increased lift from a big wing I have to either move back foot further forward or I have to use a smaller kite (in marginal winds this can create its own problem) what is the exact benefit of the 633 vs 590 for a rider who is not heavy ( I am 75 kgs ) and not riding in waves? If I need to reduce the lift from the kite to compensate for increased lift from the wing, what am I gaining by using 633 vs 590?

Can someone who has first hand experience tell me so I can decide if it's worth the price tag for me?
good question!
and I can answer this from my perspective, yesterday for example the wind was low but enough for my 9mtr, I was at Rhosneigr, a well known wave spot,
however it was flat in the morning, this made the wing choice for me the 633 to practice my foot switches as its so forgiving and will keep flying when i need to really slow things down,after an hour I was fed up of continually falling in and needed a rest, so came back in and swapped my 633 set up for my 637 race wing set up on the standard fuse,
the instant I got up and flying across the flat water a big smile came to my face, I was thinking good god, this thing is so fast and buttery smooth, going into flying gybes to toeside was exciting as the speed had to be kept up,
but fast, stable and smooth was the feeling, however when I tried to play on the little waves on the outside of the bay I lost my smile, this wing was not like the 633 which just loves waves, and soon after trying to get the maximum speed from the 637 on the flat water closer to shore, I changed back to my 633, to continue trying flying foot switches,
the 637 was not going to help me as quickly as the 633, getting back on the 633 I immediately tried to push its top speed to compare the feeling, and it was then I really noticed how much harder it was to do this compared to the 637, and of course they feel so so different in every other way.

I will be back out tomorrow and if there are waves left over from today's storms the wing of choice will be the 633 as it beats any other of the moses wings in the waves for me, its simply awesome allowing you to do things you cant even think about trying with the other moses wings, I never think about stalling the wing, as it is really hard to get it to stall, it more sinks very slowly, and when you breach the 633 it makes a noise but recovers so easily without drama.

If I only sailed on flat water and could pull off all the moves I aspire to do then the 633 would not be on my list of wings to have.
I have access to all water states and will be learning new moves for many years and for these reasons having two totally different tools -the 633 and the 627, is ideal for me.
Thanks, Foil... I get that 633 works great in waves, when a smaller kite works really well and also when you can use the wave energy with no pull from the kite, must be super fun. On flat water, will the 633 and smaller kite combo make tacking a bit easier to learn or make my gybes more efficient compared to using the 590? Or is the 633 really something for heavier riders?

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:57 am
by jash999
cwood wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:50 am
The other thing to note is that the 633 and big wings that came from Surf and SUP line are a problem for the geometry of the fixed mast on the standard Moses boards. They require a big shift in center of gravity forward...beyond a standard footstrap location. If you are going to use them a lot then you really need a board with tracks so you can adjust the mast rearward.
Now I realize I have a second problem before I can decide on getting a 633.... I need a new board with tracks or I have to custom fit tracks on T60. Thanks, cwood, for making the decision more complicated!

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:20 am
by jaros
Now I realize I have a second problem before I can decide on getting a 633.... I need a new board with tracks or I have to custom fit tracks on T60. Thanks, cwood, for making the decision more complicated
Or go strapless... :D

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:10 pm
by Foil
jash999 wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:54 am
Foil wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:45 am
jash999 wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:28 am
I have read a lot on this forum about the 633 wing and how you can ride in super low wind. No one has a 633 at my beach so I can not try it. I have only tried the 683 once, which compared to my 590 does have a lot more lift, so to compensate I had to ride with my back foot a few inches further forward of normal, with feet close together. I am using Moses T60 board. This was in wind around 10 knots.

My question is: if to compensate for the increased lift from a big wing I have to either move back foot further forward or I have to use a smaller kite (in marginal winds this can create its own problem) what is the exact benefit of the 633 vs 590 for a rider who is not heavy ( I am 75 kgs ) and not riding in waves? If I need to reduce the lift from the kite to compensate for increased lift from the wing, what am I gaining by using 633 vs 590?

Can someone who has first hand experience tell me so I can decide if it's worth the price tag for me?
good question!
and I can answer this from my perspective, yesterday for example the wind was low but enough for my 9mtr, I was at Rhosneigr, a well known wave spot,
however it was flat in the morning, this made the wing choice for me the 633 to practice my foot switches as its so forgiving and will keep flying when i need to really slow things down,after an hour I was fed up of continually falling in and needed a rest, so came back in and swapped my 633 set up for my 637 race wing set up on the standard fuse,
the instant I got up and flying across the flat water a big smile came to my face, I was thinking good god, this thing is so fast and buttery smooth, going into flying gybes to toeside was exciting as the speed had to be kept up,
but fast, stable and smooth was the feeling, however when I tried to play on the little waves on the outside of the bay I lost my smile, this wing was not like the 633 which just loves waves, and soon after trying to get the maximum speed from the 637 on the flat water closer to shore, I changed back to my 633, to continue trying flying foot switches,
the 637 was not going to help me as quickly as the 633, getting back on the 633 I immediately tried to push its top speed to compare the feeling, and it was then I really noticed how much harder it was to do this compared to the 637, and of course they feel so so different in every other way.

I will be back out tomorrow and if there are waves left over from today's storms the wing of choice will be the 633 as it beats any other of the moses wings in the waves for me, its simply awesome allowing you to do things you cant even think about trying with the other moses wings, I never think about stalling the wing, as it is really hard to get it to stall, it more sinks very slowly, and when you breach the 633 it makes a noise but recovers so easily without drama.

If I only sailed on flat water and could pull off all the moves I aspire to do then the 633 would not be on my list of wings to have.
I have access to all water states and will be learning new moves for many years and for these reasons having two totally different tools -the 633 and the 627, is ideal for me.
Thanks, Foil... I get that 633 works great in waves, when a smaller kite works really well and also when you can use the wave energy with no pull from the kite, must be super fun. On flat water, will the 633 and smaller kite combo make tacking a bit easier to learn or make my gybes more efficient compared to using the 590? Or is the 633 really something for heavier riders?
I am not yet up to practicing tacking, and when I am, the 633 will be my choice, gybes were addictive today, not many waves to play on, so practiced flying foot switches and seeing how tight I could get multiple fast gybes going both ways and improving the angle on toeside on my weaker side,
5 hours and 36 miles covered(half hour break for a coffee), my GPS tracking looked crazy.
Repeating the same tomorrow to get better at flying foot switches which are beginning to come through.
all on the 633, I am on a mission!

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:51 am
by TomW
Hej Foil,

How far is your mast plate rear screws from the tail of your board on the 633?

Re: High Lift Wings like Moses 633 Onda: who is it for?

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:59 am
by Foxi
TomW wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 12:51 am
Hej Foil,

How far is your mast plate rear screws from the tail of your board on the 633?
It‘s perfect like this .. ca 7cm left to the very end ..