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Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

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apos0
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Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby apos0 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:08 am

I’m an experienced foiler and today I tried for the first time my new Ghost Whisper 91 2019 with the 633 front wing together with a SS Hypermiller board.
Overall it feels well constructed and the carbon fibre wings and mast look great! Board is awesome, super light as a carbon fibre fibre board should be, with SS quality.

Riding it (I was slightly overpowered)I found it had too much front pressure. Anyone used it? Any imput on what’s the best settings for it? Thanks
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cwood
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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby cwood » Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:50 am

Some questions and comments:
beautiful setup....I like the look of this board.
This mast wing combo is from the Moses SUP and Surf line and the geometry is not set up quite right for kiteboards...but its easy to fix. You just need to get your center of gravity (weight) further forward to the point you like the balance and weight distribution.

This wing is quite susceptible to over powered discomfort due to the extreme lift but if you get it trimmed out nicely then it behaves like any other. If you are a bit up at the front biased then it will show up fast in over powered situation.

Are you riding straps?

Are you riding mast as far back as you can go? If not, take it back a couple cm and try again. If you are at the back, move the straps forward some. My preference is to move mast when switching from 633 to race wing vs moving straps, which I loath.

If you are all the way back on the mast and all the way forward on foot positions, then you are out of options on adjusting at the board....but not to worry, you can go two ways:
1: Shim the rear of the rear stab 2-3 degrees. You can make your own plastic wedge or order one from SK shapes. This makes a huge difference but it is not quite optimal as you are messing with the trim of the wing set by feeding "down elevator" like an aircraft. This can introduce a slight bit of turbulence. Some notice it and some don't.
2: Shim the rear of the mast mount to fuse a few mm. Put a few slices of plastic margarine lid or something else of this thickness at the very rear of the slot which cants the mast a tiny bit in relation to the fuselage which in effect puts your mass (center of gravity) a bit further forward, effectively countering the up bias. This allows the wings to perform as designed.

apos0
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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby apos0 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:13 pm

cwood wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 11:50 am
Some questions and comments:
beautiful setup....I like the look of this board.
This mast wing combo is from the Moses SUP and Surf line and the geometry is not set up quite right for kiteboards...but its easy to fix. You just need to get your center of gravity (weight) further forward to the point you like the balance and weight distribution.

This wing is quite susceptible to over powered discomfort due to the extreme lift but if you get it trimmed out nicely then it behaves like any other. If you are a bit up at the front biased then it will show up fast in over powered situation.

Are you riding straps?

Are you riding mast as far back as you can go? If not, take it back a couple cm and try again. If you are at the back, move the straps forward some. My preference is to move mast when switching from 633 to race wing vs moving straps, which I loath.



If you are all the way back on the mast and all the way forward on foot positions, then you are out of options on adjusting at the board....but not to worry, you can go two ways:
1: Shim the rear of the rear stab 2-3 degrees. You can make your own plastic wedge or order one from SK shapes. This makes a huge difference but it is not quite optimal as you are messing with the trim of the wing set by feeding "down elevator" like an aircraft. This can introduce a slight bit of turbulence. Some notice it and some don't.
2: Shim the rear of the mast mount to fuse a few mm. Put a few slices of plastic margarine lid or something else of this thickness at the very rear of the slot which cants the mast a tiny bit in relation to the fuselage which in effect puts your mass (center of gravity) a bit further forward, effectively countering the up bias. This allows the wings to perform as designed.

Thanks for the input, I think I have to make some changes, firstly I was v overpowered on my 15 Chrono V3 (15 knots plus)
I had the straps set up as I like them on my race foils, too wide apart. I will adjust and bring the back strap forward, I will also move the mast all the way back, if that fails I will go strapless so I can find the sweet spot. If that doesn’t work I will try the other options.
Saying that I saw a rider (never got a chance to speak to him) riding the same foil very comfortably on one of the smaller SS boards, either alien or dwarf, he was tacking and freeriding no problem and the foil looked balanced.
Thanks for your suggestions :thumb:

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:22 pm

+15 knots and a 15 m2 Chrono with a 1200 cm2 wing - this seems utterly wrong in every way, I think you should start here instead :roll:

Unless you weigh 700 pounds, then it sounds right :thumb:

Racers can ride with such a kite in that much wing yes, but on tiny very flat/fast wings.

You got the inputs how to get the trim right in above post yes, but start using a more suitable kitesize instead, before you mess things around too much.

If you are average weight 75-80 kg in + 15 knots, a 7 m2 LEI is more than sufficient, in fact well powered, on a normal freeride wing.

Thus on a 1200 cm2 you could easily ride with a 5 m2 in this wind - I do this on mine sometimes.

Not saying you should go that small if not into waves, but using a 15 m2 racekite in this wind with a "SURF" sized wing, will make everything difficult.

I assume you have got this size of wing to be able to ride small kites and in low wind, and/or maybe surf - so use the right kites for this for starters, and see how the trim is now, and take it from there :D

Regarding trimming the stab - I would be very careful with that, as it does not only affect the trim when going straight - it affects hugely how the hydrofoil will carve.

8) Peter

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby apos0 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:02 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 2:22 pm
+15 knots and a 15 m2 Chrono with a 1200 cm2 wing - this seems utterly wrong in every way, I think you should start here instead :roll:

Unless you weigh 700 pounds, then it sounds right :thumb:

Racers can ride with such a kite in that much wing yes, but on tiny very flat/fast wings.

You got the inputs how to get the trim right in above post yes, but start using a more suitable kitesize instead, before you mess things around too much.

If you are average weight 75-80 kg in + 15 knots, a 7 m2 LEI is more than sufficient, in fact well powered, on a normal freeride wing.

Thus on a 1200 cm2 you could easily ride with a 5 m2 in this wind - I do this on mine sometimes.

Not saying you should go that small if not into waves, but using a 15 m2 racekite in this wind with a "SURF" sized wing, will make everything difficult.

I assume you have got this size of wing to be able to ride small kites and in low wind, and/or maybe surf - so use the right kites for this for starters, and see how the trim is now, and take it from there :D

Regarding trimming the stab - I would be very careful with that, as it does not only affect the trim when going straight - it affects hugelye house how the hydrofoil will carve.

8) Peter
Ha ha no usually I’m not that silly :D
I’m on holiday and in the morning I completely underestimated the wind, it was 8 knots when left the house and by the time I set up it was blowing. It wasn’t even forecasting any wind. I just received this foil so I was desperate to try it out.
Luckily I had my Spotz Shark so I didn’t miss the session...
Its typical the one day that you want the forecast to be correct and it’s blowing :lol:
Even all the other foilers was on 15m foil kites as it wasn’t forecasting that much wind..
Hopefully I’ll try it tomorrow :thumb:

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby jespin4845 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:15 pm

15 knots...

633 set all the way back and a 6/7/8m lei

Not a race kite...that kite wants to go fast in a straight line , that foil wants to go slow and carve and be strapless

But it will tolerate straps with shims and such

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby grigorib » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:20 pm

Mast position should be 1”-1.5” back of position for 548/590 wings setup.
I had too much front foot pressure initially and moved the mast.

Where could you get this wing?

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby oregonkiter » Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:05 pm

Shim the union where the mast connects to the fuse. You can cut up an old credit card and use clear packing tape to hold it in place. Works very well, and it does not mess with the relationship between the wing and stabilizer. on my 105 cm mast, one CC thickness equals moving my center back 1-1.25" You will get less on a 91, but it will be about an inch.

To visualize what's going on look at the wings and fuse from the side. They are trimmed by design to ride flat--parallel to the water surface. Now think about putting a shim at the REAR of the mast where it joins the fuselage. This will rotate the wings and fuse forward towards the surface. As you begin to move under power the wings will naturally rotate BACK to level. The wings, in a sense, apply some front foot pressure for you.

Your board has the tracks relatively far forward, as it's a race board designed for higher aspect wings. So, if you use straps, start out with the front straps all the forward and for sure the mast all the way back. You may still need to shim. Even if you ride strapless you may need to shuim if you feel that you are too far forward on the board to deal with chop, etc. Time to shim...

The shim can be made with scissors. Cut it about the same width as the mast, and perhaps 5mm long. Use a small piece of packing tape to hold it in place. Screw the mast in and take it for a ride. Not enough? Add a second shim and so on. You can also buy a plastic putty spatula for $1-2. These are angled, so you can find the right thickness that way too. This video explains it all:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... tion=click

The GW 633 wing was a complete game changer for me. Such a fun wing! It's perhaps the best fun value for the dollar I have ever spent, and I have bought A LOT of sports gear in my time.

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby apos0 » Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:28 pm

oregonkiter wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 4:05 pm
Shim the union where the mast connects to the fuse. You can cut up an old credit card and use clear packing tape to hold it in place. Works very well, and it does not mess with the relationship between the wing and stabilizer. on my 105 cm mast, one CC thickness equals moving my center back 1-1.25" You will get less on a 91, but it will be about an inch.

To visualize what's going on look at the wings and fuse from the side. They are trimmed by design to ride flat--parallel to the water surface. Now think about putting a shim at the REAR of the mast where it joins the fuselage. This will rotate the wings and fuse forward towards the surface. As you begin to move under power the wings will naturally rotate BACK to level. The wings, in a sense, apply some front foot pressure for you.

Your board has the tracks relatively far forward, as it's a race board designed for higher aspect wings. So, if you use straps, start out with the front straps all the forward and for sure the mast all the way back. You may still need to shim. Even if you ride strapless you may need to shuim if you feel that you are too far forward on the board to deal with chop, etc. Time to shim...

The shim can be made with scissors. Cut it about the same width as the mast, and perhaps 5mm long. Use a small piece of packing tape to hold it in place. Screw the mast in and take it for a ride. Not enough? Add a second shim and so on. You can also buy a plastic putty spatula for $1-2. These are angled, so you can find the right thickness that way too. This video explains it all:

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/sear ... tion=click

The GW 633 wing was a complete game changer for me. Such a fun wing! It's perhaps the best fun value for the dollar I have ever spent, and I have bought A LOT of sports gear in my time.
Thanks for all the info, all makes sense, will have to start trying things to see what it works with my board. I also ordered 2”& 3” shims for the rear wing. Do you these would help or the shim on the fuselage would be better?

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Re: Slingshot Ghost Whisper 91 2019 imput needed

Postby caps » Fri Aug 17, 2018 10:44 pm

I ride the 2019 GW SS 633 with a SS DC 54". The foil is all the way back, front straps all the way forward and no back strap. I find my back foot is well forward of any back strap placement options. So if I wanted to ride with a back strap as well, I'd need to shim. But with my current setup, I find riding in powered situations no problem. I'm fully stoked on this setup! Everything feels so much more under control, no run away speed blowups, goes plenty fast and then seems to almost self-limit the speed itself and provides plenty of stability for even the clumsiest foot switches. Super, sweet foil that won't disappoint the intermediate foiler. Now if you're expert level with unlimited foiling time, you might need a higher performance wing to find your stoke. But even then, I think an expert would dig the wave riding abilities.


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