Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

is super light wind the promised land?!

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


Kitehume
Rare Poster
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:33 pm
Kiting since: 2012
Local Beach: Lake Hume, Australia.
Gear: Ocean rodeo prodigy 9.5m
Ocean rodeo flite 10m
Ocean rodeo prodigy 12m
FlySurfer Soul 12m
Ocean rodeo flite 14.5m
Shinn king gee 146x46
Shinn monk gold 135x42
Liquid force thruster foil
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Australia

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Kitehume » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:13 am

phpBB [video]

Here I am having fun in 6-9knts with a OceanRodeo Flite 14.5m And Liquid Force Thruster Foil.
Its a three strut kite and weighs 3.7KG. So not super light weight.
If I can keep it up in the air, then I can Foil.
Deep water relaunch would not of happened in these conditions, I need about 9-10knots. And will be over powered on the 14.5m at 10-12knots any way.
So hoping a 12m Soul will fix my low wind relaunch headaches.

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby foilholio » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:23 am

Most foil kites relaunch down to 4-5knots.

Foil
Frequent Poster
Posts: 413
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
2019 groove skate naked carbon.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
Moses wings 590 and 548
Ozone Reo 6/8/9/10/12/
Nobile 50/50 twin tip
North 2018 click bars
massive grin
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Foil » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:01 pm

foilholio wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:23 am
Most foil kites relaunch down to 4-5knots.

Maybe the ones that don't relaunch easily should be named?
the race foil I witnessed being used often at Como by a very experienced race guy with the full race gear and slick moves to match was great to watch, but he also ditched his kite and at times had a struggle to get it back up, and on one occasion he dropped it not far from the beach area, so I could watch closely what was happening.
I would have expected the kite to relaunch as soon as he managed to get the kite sitting correctly in the "hot launch position" he had a struggle to do this but then he did it and I told Pauline stood next to me to watch it just fly up easily,
It did not, he kept trying but no, the kite refused to lift off, this confused me until I spotted the problem, as he encouraged the kite to lift off I noticed the trailing edge of the kite was holding around 5-6 inches of water between the 2 skins, easy to see as the material was very thin and transparent, when the kite lifted off the water a little I was looking to see if the water was draining out, which I could not spot(is this normal?)I did expect the water to at least spill out of the ends, but could not spot any leaking out, result was his kite had to be rescued from the waters edge by a few helpers and laid out for a while on the grass to dry out.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8801
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:51 pm

foilholio wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:23 am
Most foil kites relaunch down to 4-5knots.

Hmmm, I would say most foil kites relaunch immediately if they get launched right away, but if not, within max a few minutes, it is a packdown and swim.
Unless it is at least 6 knots where there is a lot more "hope" to be able to relaunch.

And sometimes not, in 4-5 knots of wind, where it is often almost no wind at all at the surface/head height, it usually dont work at all when drifting in deep water.

Noone can really foil in this wind anyways, not even with 21 m2 superlight race kites.

You got more than twice as much pull/energy in 6 knots of wind, compared to 4.
In 4 you can continue to ride if you ARE up foiling with marginal wind gear yes, but you can not really start and definitely not deep water launch a wet foil kite IMO.

Borders can and might be moved over time indeed, but not that low yet :roll:

Race foil kites are what exists around here in quite big numbers, and they are lighter than freeride foilkites so if launched fast before the thin skin takes in water, they can launch in just as low wind or lower, right?
Problem is, the super high AR make them prone to twist a knot on themeselves occasionally, or get the tip tangled in the bridles - easy to unwrap when wind, but can be doomed in marginal winds.

LEI kites are even worse of course, so be prepared to swim if you drop the kite, ANY kite, in marginal winds - then you wont get bad surprises either, but are prepared and safe :naughty:

8) PF

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:29 pm

4-5 is little exaggerated claim but todays mid aspect foil kites are dream to relaunch. The main reason is that they doesnt stick to water like LEIs and they doest need resistance while pulling to launch.
It doesnt matter if you are in deep water or stay in shallow. With LEI its day night difference in relaunch chances. Also argument about water in kite. It is not so easy. Even when there are a LOT of water in kite, it just goes out while kite is on water leading edge UP. Wind push Air into kite and water is pushed away via draining holes. You just wait without do anything and kite drain itself. So in time they can be actually less water in kite. If kite is LE in water it can be flip in very little wind because kite is non rigid and some part of kite are always without water and they will be eventualy catched by some wind and turned around part of kite where is water and which act as anchor. All this in very little wind. If there is wind these kite just wont stays in water.

jespin4845
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 556
Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:10 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Lake Worth, FL
Jupiter, FL
Style: Freeride/surf
Gear: kites and boards
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby jespin4845 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:00 pm

Peter did you ever try your kitech????

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8801
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:31 pm

jespin4845 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:00 pm
Peter did you ever try your kitech????

No, I dropped getting a new not too big super UL foil kite (of any kind), as it was not possible for anyone to make it before the summer event and 10 days trip to an island with low winds...

So used my Storm Voyager 12 m2 strutless, and my 11 m2 ELF Joker instead, when 6-7 knots.

Now approaching autumn it is windy often, mostly out with 6 m2 these days, so might wait till winter/spring with a kite like this :naughty:

8) Peter

tomtom
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 638
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 1:00 am

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby tomtom » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:53 pm

I envy you. LEIs are THE kites for handling and feel. They just need some wind :)

foilholio
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2391
Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:20 am
Kiting since: 1337
Local Beach: Ventura Beach
Favorite Beaches: Tarifa
Style: Airstyle
Gear: Foils
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby foilholio » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:11 am

Let me clarify a little with all the debate, as I would dare to say I am at least an expert in relaunching foil kites. 4knots is for ultralight kites 5 knots standard fabric. Lower AR tend to relaunch easier. For a couple reasons related to their shorter span, a smaller rotational circle and shorter path for water to the tips, but also less likely to tangle. Kites with water repellent coatings make a huge difference, from Flysurfer with lotus and ... Pansh! Kites with excellent air retention, Flysurfer, help a lot. Kites with great drainage, Flysurfer, are better but other brands are still good at this like Pansh.

There is techniques to relaunch in light wind. There is techniques to drain water. Getting water in a kite will often slow relaunch especially in light wind. If you don't do it right water can just keep collecting making relaunch impossible. Being quick will make your life easier by far. I would say my average relaunch time is 5-10seconds. In the lightest wind it can go over a minute. I have even spent 10minutes relaunching a kite very full of water successfully, but that was very long ago and there are much better kites today.

Kite setup affects ease of relaunch. Higher camber relaunches better. It reverses and flies forward better and in less wind. A minutia of details about the bridles and how the lines particularly attach affects whether tangles may occur or not. Brake straps seem far inferior to balls, or knots and impossible to get the line differential, let alone the timing to rotate a kite in light wind. Bar throw, having back stall and full depower at the bar helps. Back stall gives you control to hold the kite where it needs to stay.

The techniques for relaunch are summarized as steps. Get the kite open. Flip the kite. Hold it to drain water. Fly it up. There is many variations and additional details. Swimming helps with everything, and you can even relaunch a bit lower than 4-5knots with swimming and great technique. Often you will need to swim and then pull with lines in one out stretched hand/arm to complete a step. It is very different to where in stronger wind the steps are blended into one smooth action.

Trust me I have been on the water many times where the kite would only stay in the air if I actively flew it. On land I can fly a kite down to about 1-2knots. On water you need more because of drift, I still relaunch in that active fly wind. So I would say if you can park a kite it can almost definitely be relaunched.

One more thing, old foil kites and tune. They lose depower when they age and shrink. This will affect your low wind relaunch immensely. They just won't fly forward as low. Fix it and enjoy a full functioning kite.

If you want more on technique just let me know, or post a vid for comment.

User avatar
jakemoore
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2004 3:59 am
Kiting since: 2004
Gear: Foil and 1strut kites.
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Oleander
Contact:

Re: is super light wind the promised land?!

Postby jakemoore » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:26 am

Kitehume wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:13 am
So hoping a 12m Soul will fix my low wind relaunch headaches.
Looks like you have the Soloshot3 sorted out. Are you using the 25 or 65? Any vibration problems?


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: matanshapira and 3 guests