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too light to drift downwind?

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AGK
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too light to drift downwind?

Postby AGK » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:17 pm

Yesterday I was foiling in about 12 knots with some downwind current and 2 foot wind chop. I have recently started using a much lighter 68cm mast and fuse (Project Cedrus http://www.bayareakiteboarding.com/foru ... =1&t=14778 ) with Cloud 9 S24 wings (same as Liquid Force impulse wings) and a 140 cm low volume Shinn foilboard.

I dropped the kite in the water on a transition in a lull and one of the lines twisted around the kite, and it took a minute or two to get it straightened out and relaunched, during which time I drifted about 35 meters downwind of my board. The board was on its side with the foil upwind, and was not coming downwind at all ( or if it was, very, very slowly). If anything, it was moving slightly across the wind in the direction the board was pointing. Fifteen minutes of bodydragging were getting me no closer to the board, and in fact I was losing a little ground. I eventually used the kite to get to shore, swam out and got the board, and swam it back to shore. Took a long time and was not fun.

Using the heavier mast (also 68 cm) and fuse that originally came with the Cloud 9, the board always ended up flat with the mast pointing down, and the foil made it go pretty rapidly downwind. I have really been enjoying the lighter setup, but this was definitely not something I want to repeat.

So: has this happened to anyone else? Could it have been a function of relatively light wind (both in terms of being able to make a good upwind angle bodydragging, or in terms of whether the mast would have been forced down in stronger wind)? Is there some easy modification that might prevent this from happening in the future?

Thanks for any insight or solutions.

tomtom
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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby tomtom » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:26 pm

Board on side /light foil/ - goes to side or sail upwind
Foil down /heavy foil/ - autofoiling with waves goes straight downwind /speed depend on waves/

BWD
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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby BWD » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:26 pm

Change how the board floats: tape a piece of pool noodle or similar to your board near the tail or nose if you want to explore how floating more affects it, or a weight if you are willing to make it heavier. this will change the center of flotation and/or gravity of the board and foil so it orients differently at rest and hopefully kill unwanted lift developing when drifting.
The result will also depend on conditions and initial orientation of the board, but you should be able to come up with something that gives improvement in the most problematic situations.
For my low volume board and Al mast, adding buoyancy to the tail helped with my issue -board being driven down deep underwater and coming up several meters away, after too long a time...
Depending what you add to the board and its orientation, the effect may also be hydrodynamic - ie a noodle running rail to rail across the deck would act like a brake, etc.
Last edited by BWD on Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby Laughingman » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:31 pm

AGK wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:17 pm

So: has this happened to anyone else?
Yes to an extent, I just recently changed my high volume (21 liters) board to a low volume (5 liters or so) and noticed the same thing, the board did not come and meet me, in fact I had to body drag up wind to get it... I didn't think much of it till I read your post but certainly noticed it on the water

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RagingGrandpa
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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby RagingGrandpa » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Funny, this happened to me yesterday on a friend's wooden DIY KBHF. Foils that float are a surprising pain!

Why not weight the fuse just enough to get it to stop floating? Some lead shot epoxied into the hollow fuse would be located far away from the board, so it still would be lighter overall than the aluminum mast setup...

(A foil system designer could make better use of that weight of course, using it to beef up mast or wing attachments, etc)

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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby slingshotucf » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:13 pm

The Carbon wings with the carbon fuselage gives it a lot of buoyancy which is great for water starts strapless. If you want it to sink down and lay flat every time, switch tot he aluminum fuselage. I find sometimes the foil is like an old jet ski and goes around in circles in the current.

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edt
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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby edt » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:14 pm

Yeah that's pretty funny. On its side a hydrofoil just sits there but let the foil point down and it shoots downwind like a rocket. Of all the weird disadvantages nobody would ever think a hydrofoil foil is too light until you see it happen, but there it is. When a foil is too light it's impossible to retrieve it. I would use a heavier mast if you want to keep using that wing.

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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby SaulOhio » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:48 pm

And I'm trying to build my foils lighter so I don't lose them if something breaks. Great! Another problem to deal with.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:37 pm

edt wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:14 pm
Yeah that's pretty funny. On its side a hydrofoil just sits there but let the foil point down and it shoots downwind like a rocket. Of all the weird disadvantages nobody would ever think a hydrofoil foil is too light until you see it happen, but there it is. When a foil is too light it's impossible to retrieve it. I would use a heavier mast if you want to keep using that wing.
Correct :thumb:

It is a disadvantage we would never have seen, of the almost perfect stiff and light hydrofoils :roll:

Experienced it myself just a couple of hours ago, again.

BUT - in reality we are spoiled that our foils usually pedal to the medal downwind, dolphining full speed, so we dont have to bodydrag upwind, just drag "down" to our boards :rollgrin:

It is no problem dragging to the hydrofoil on its side IMO, take longer of course, but if you do it like you would with a TT upside down t.ex, it will work just fine :thumb:

The lightness and ability to waterstart faster by far outweighs the extra time you sometimes need to bodydrag.

So you are right AGK, many have experienced this too not only you - takes somewhat more effort to get your hydrofoil, when on its side :D

8) PF

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Re: too light to drift downwind?

Postby TARTAX » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:17 pm

i had the same problem with moses onda 633.
but only with low volume and heavyboards with a skimboard like construction.with this kind of boards the rail gets deep in the water ,the foil works like a dagger,the board like a sail and it starts to go away.
with strong wind it goes fast...
but now with a very light board,carbon construction less than 2 kilos the rail doesn't sink so much: so the wind hitting the board makes the board to rotate downwind and doesn't go away anymore.
so my conclusion is that with floating foils the boards with an heavy and no volume construction gives this problem


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