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For an absolute newbie

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Peter_Frank
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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:16 pm

A 14 m2 kite is NOT that big for hydrofoiling, with 107 kg.

It corresponds to a 10 m2 kite for the average weight, so the 14 m2 would be just fine in 10-12 knots for you Lopi :thumb:

If you need to ride in say 15 knots, I think a 10 m2 would suit just dandy, when you have mastered that is - for learning a bit bigger kite is needed in 15 knots.

If you want to ride in 8 knots, it is a very different ballgame though, and your 14 m2 "normal" kite can not be used.
Too small for you, and kite also too heavy, it can not hang well in this low wind nomore and will drop in the water way too often, probably even before you get out on the water...

So in this range you unfortunately need special kites, a lot more expensive, probably only light foilkites 15 to 20 m2 can do the job for you.
Where us average weights can get away with light LEI kites, say one or nostruts 12 to 15 m2 in size.

When learning, you will crash the kite a lot when all your focus is on the foil, so if wind is only 10 knots it is difficult to learn, as you probably have to drift ashore to relaunch every time you crash the kite further out, and you need to be further out so it is deep to learn foiling.

Even those with years of experience, crash their kite in 10 knots when they go out for the first time, so for you with less experience it will probably be a very steep hill to get past :wink:

Possible most likely, but a challenge indeed :D

You have to learn in 15 knots IMO, for having a chance to learn without too many "added" obstackles.

8) Peter

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby TomW » Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:51 pm

If you are going to do this get the Moses 633 with a short and 91cm mast ( for later). get a decent 150cm board thats pretty big- the Moses T40 will work. you are a big guy. ( i have Moses 633 but learned on 550, then went to 590, now on 633)
8 knots isn´t good. You will need 12 knots minimum to learn.

Can you go out with the kite only and bodydrag across the wind out to deep water and back ? do some figure 8+s and drag along ? without dropping the kite ? do it while not looking and the kite. B-drag with one hand on the bar easily while not looking at the kite? OK. next step.
Take the foil board with short mast and do the same thing- body drag with the foil board out and back - dont try to get up on it. drag out and back a whole session. Can you do that confidently? next step.
Drag out and try to get up onto the board and surface ride- can you get up on the board and ride 10 m ? - You are on your way. have fun.
cant do that after a lot of trying ? - Sell the kit for a small loss- the Moses 633 is in demand.

wear lots or protection- booties, wetsuit and impact or floatation vest, helmet.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby opie » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:07 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:16 pm
A 14 m2 kite is NOT that big for hydrofoiling, with 107 kg.

It corresponds to a 10 m2 kite for the average weight, so the 14 m2 would be just fine in 10-12 knots for you Lopi :thumb:


8) Peter
That's a good point.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby Jyoder » Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Is your kiting site shallow? Ideally it would be shallow enough to stand but deep enough to foil with a short mast. You will be dropping the kite a lot and swimming in a lot will suck your energy and ambition.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby grtlakes » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:19 pm

Sounds to me like you are going to try to learn the hardest kiting discipline in the most difficult way possible. Not inconceivable sure, but why?

I’d get proficient with a door TT a suitable kite and go from there. I have always found the most difficult thing about learning kiting is combining the right kit with the right conditions.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby Breze » Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:59 pm

Yes depends a lot on your spot. Onshore wind without dragging technik, i would say impossibel. Sideshore and you will loose your Foil. Crossonshore ok. Get some lessons

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby juandesooka » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:32 pm

I agree with MattyM: it will be way easier to learn to foil if you already have kite control, and the most transferable skill is on a surfboard. If I was you, I'd find the cheapest beat-up surfboard you can find, master it, then if you don't want to carry on with it, sell it to the next person in line for what you paid. Or drill 4 holes in it and attach your foil, as a cheap initial foil platform that you're used to. Though you may find you choose to keep it: having a foil and a SB on the beach gives you a fun alternative, depending on conditions.

Same advice goes for foil: get a used cheap beginner low-end freeride foil, one that has lot of lift. Get a short mast if you can, the 15" or 24" -- makes a massive difference for those first few attempts. Master that, then move on to the name brands and $$. If you were learning to drive, you don't really benefit from a BMW, a hyundai will do just fine ... upgrade when you can tell the difference.

If you are in a place where wind is not every day, and if you know anyone who has a boat, you can also get your basic foiling skills behind the boat. Learn how it lifts and how to keep it in the water. Learn to turn back and forth (heelside/toeside turns). Practice water starting "wrong" foot forward too. All these skills will translate directly once under a kite, and shorten your learning curve.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby azoele » Mon Oct 01, 2018 6:44 pm

Thanks all for the suggestions and ideas!

My weight has been a problem also here, at the local spot, when I asked suggestions regarding equipment: with riders averaging 75kg, people kept suggesting me 138cm boards and 10/11m kites :roll: unfortunately, weighing an extra 30kg does exact (many) a toll, so need adequate equipment.

The spot I have easy access to is rather shallow: it quickly gets to 1m, 1.2m, then there's a "shallow barrier", then it gets deeper (but reasonably so, like 3/5m for quite a distance).
I wonder what a good mast size is for this.

I can body drag easily enough, although I still "need" to look at the kite: as I always practiced in low wind, oftentimes the kite would want to fall down in lulls, or just get its lines rather slack, so having an eye on it helped me correct issues before they became fatal (kite falling in the water).
Perhaps in stronger, steadier winds I might be able to keep it up no-look.
Still, kite fell only the first 2 days; no falls since.

I will check the Clearwater foils (they sure look nice), but I'm most probably going for a complete package.
I'll probably jump on the first deal that comes across, so I won't lose too much on the experiment – plus, I'm a bit scared now of razor sharp Moses, after your suggestions).
(btw: anyone with experience on 2018 Naish Thrust foils? 1 has just popped up...).

The idea of buying a surf to test and sacrifice is probably nice too; but then, I know even less than foils about that (haven't the faintest idea about size for me; my research has been all on twin tips and hydrofoils).

Unfortunately, no one does hydrofoiling here; sometimes kiters come from other spots, but I have counted 3 or 4 hydrofoilers in 60+ total kiters during nice windy days.
Not truly a lot I could ask suggestions to (and would have to wait the next good, windy day, where it's lulling in other spots so they come).
A spot with nice tutoring is 120km from here, one way.
So, am between a foil, and a hard place :D

Again, thanks all for the helping comments: I'm really excited, and trying to digest all your suggestions.

Lopi

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby jakemoore » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:08 pm

Why not a free race board like Airush Sector or an old non foil race board. If you are in light wind that is the way to go. I would learn to jibe the race board and then you are set up for surface jibes on the hydrofoil.

You should be able to find a used race board at a nice price.

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Re: For an absolute newbie

Postby juandesooka » Mon Oct 01, 2018 7:14 pm

With added info, I may revise my suggestion a little, or maybe strengthen it a lot. I think your idea to skip learning fundamental skills on a twintip or surfboard, and jump right to foil, is not advisable. For one, foiling is hard enough without having to learn kite control and board control while doing it. But more important: the foil has some dangerous aspects to it, in particular if you happen to wrap lines on the foil, where it can become very serious, even life threatening. If you are in a shallow spot, you will need to be able to body drag your foil to deeper water -- if very shallow, you may have to do this with the board upside down and foil in the air. This requires MAXIMUM safety, as if you crash the kite, it is easy for the foil to fall onto your lines. Your plan sounds difficult at best and dangerous at worst. Sorry to say so, but there it is.

Master your surface riding, preferably on a surfboard, but a twintip will do, then progress to a foil.


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