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One kite for old school AND foiling

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders

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Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosneigr for the Foil and twintip.
Style: improving foiler.
Gear: Moses T38 full carbon Ltd edition. number 3 and number 56.
101cmMoses Carbon mast
Moses- 633 wave wing and stab
Moses 2018 637 race wing and stab,
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Re: One kite for old school AND foiling

Postby Foil » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:28 am

bragnouff wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:08 pm
I'm puzzled to see people recommending the Reo. It's a great kite, no doubt about it, but when waveriding isn't even part of your listed requirements, the Enduro would fit the bill so much better for all other points. Sorry I don't buy into the "best kite for TTip", it goes against its wave DNA. If you're moslty riding foil and surfboard with the occasional dabbing in the twintip, sure! Otherwise, I'd say go Enduro.
Coming from a switchblade, you would find the Reo pretty twitchy, and I'd assume you would end up some moves with the kite in a part of the window that you don't necessarily expect (nor want).
All i can say is out of the 5 foilers who use our spot, 4 of us use a quiver of Ozone Reo kites, and when its very windy 30knts and too wavy 3 of us swap to TTip, and myself being a boosting fanatic feel the Reo is one of the best boosting kites I have ever had in the sizes below 12mtr, and more stable than most kites I have ever tried, in the smaller sizes 6-and 8mtr I have set the rear lines on the slowest setting for both the foil and Ttip.
two of the other foilers are long term wave board users and Ttip users, and often switch styles during a session on their Reo's.
and the 5 of us have been through some testing of kites before we settled on the Reo kites for 90% of our sailing, one of the group owns a soul 12mtr for the mega low wind days, and one owns a BRM 12 cloud, but the Reos are the main go to kite.
I do agree with the comments made about the standard 5 strut large lei kites of 10mtr and above, these are too heavy in just about any or all makes and may give big problems with relaunch and simply falling out of the sky on a foil in the lulls,

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Re: One kite for old school AND foiling

Postby Zandman » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:56 am

Thanks for all the replies! I will have a look at Reo and the flite.

Foil kites could serve both light wind and boosting but unfortunately it’s not possible to launch them in 3 out of 4 places I kite.
Moreover as I’m still learning a lot with the foilboard, I prefer something that floats…

It will have to be a compromise to fit all these…

Ranked wish list:
-Big wind range (1 kite quiver)
-Light wind relaunch (Still learning)
-Hang in light air (frequent failure point with swim back)
-Jumping performance (TT use when windy -> 50% of time)
-Low end static grunt - meaning easy waterstart with the foil – 90kgs (getting better at this sticking point, therefore last in the list)

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Posts: 63
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Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Castelldefels, Mar bella, Riumar
Favorite Beaches: Cape Town
Style: freeride
Gear: Flysurfer Speed Lotus 15m. 2013 Cabrinha Switchblades 7,9,12 m/ Shinnster/Cabrinha Tronic/Sroka Hydrofoil
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Re: One kite for old school AND foiling

Postby xoen » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:06 am

Zandman wrote:
Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:47 pm
I need your help in choosing my next kite.

For various reasons, I’d like to have only one kite.*

If the wind is strong (50%) I go with the TT and mainly jump, do some rotations etc (nothing fancy but still slowly improving)
For light winds (50%) I ride a zeeko green (all around freeride wing). I can now ride ok(ish) in straight line but only manage <10% jibes without foot change…
In general, not very talented but I enjoy the process of learning and improving.

Not sure which direction I’d like to progress with the foil, for sure not course racing! carving Drexler style looks nice but also impossible…
Zipping around the coast and enjoying the upwind/downwind freedom with the foil suits me as a plan. Have to improve the turns…
Let’s say my target for now is to ride comfortably various conditions and not fall.

From my TT times I have a 2016 10m Switchblade. I want to gift it with the bar to my brother who is now staring.
At my 90kgs and the local conditions this one or an 11m was spot on. (I enjoy riding the TT lit)
If the wind is medium-light I’m perfect with the Hfoil but if it is lower I have trouble to relaunch it although I could ride it ok… (without the board in my feet - forget it...)
Therefore I would like a kite that relaunches easier and hangs better in light air.

I’m thinking that a modern 3-strut all rounder should be a bit lighter and fit me well.
Probably a bit of a high end sacrifice vs the 5-struts but I will go one size less -> 9m (vs 10/11m)
And now…Oh… There is so much choice…
At least I exclude foil kites because we launch between thorny bushes…
Haven’t tested many 1 strut kites but believe they will not be fun with TT-overpowered (?)

What should I look for , if my ordered wishes are:

-Big wind range
-Light wind relaunch
-Hang in light air
-Jumping performance
-Low end static grunt (meaning easy waterstart with the foil – 90kgs)

Some of the above are fighting each other and for sure compromises have to be done (especially with “jumping performance” in the bill)

I believe a 3 strut medium aspect & light construction.
Like the 3 strut voyager?
Flite was another thought but not sure about relaunch… seems quite thin tips.
Is the moto light enough?

Any help in solving my puzzle appreciated!

-Not having to choose, just pump the one I have
-The second one will melt in the car
-Minimalism as option
-I like the idea that conditions dictate the ride
Hello ,

maybe I can help, because I found myself in the same dilemma. I kite since 2010, and had alwasy been a Cabrinha fan, riding switchblades (7,9,12). I started with TT, but I progressivelystarted Surfkiting and since 1.5 years, foiling. And found that my switchblades were okish for the surfboard, and not really good for foiling, because of the weight. Their weight in the winds I would surfkite, and especially hydrofoil with them makes them sluggish and slow, and impossible to relaunch...I have to say I love them for boosting and oldschool with the TT, when powered, since their range is massive. But as I said, in low wind I dislike them.
I tried then a Best Roca 11m, and I inmediately bought it. Since then it is my main kite. The 3 struts makes them very light, and range is huge, hangtime from the 1mm is better than my switchblade 12 and I mainly use it as 1 kite quiver. I use it for TT (16-26 knots, oldschool), strapless surfkite (14-23 aprox, mainly freestyling) or hydrofoil (from 10 knots or so).
So I would recommen any similar Kite. Best Roca v2, or eleveight RS, or maybe the North/duotone evo...3 struts, so that they are light, and andmedium to high aspect ratio, so to have hangtime and a big windrange.
Hope this helps,

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Re: One kite for old school AND foiling

Postby joriws » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:43 am

Zandman wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:56 am
Foil kites could serve both light wind and boosting but unfortunately it’s not possible to launch them in 3 out of 4 places I kite.
Moreover as I’m still learning a lot with the foilboard, I prefer something that floats…
This may be surprise to you that foil kites do float as fabric is less dense than water. They float so well that they can be launched completely empty from water surface without a beach. And on low wind when you practise hydrofoiling - foil kite relaunches better than LEI because it is easy to reverse-relaunch in the middle of "power" zone. So if you drop kite, just keep all 4 lines tensioned and let kite drift to middle. Then reverse relaunch by pulling rear lines and let go other line. Even foil-kite beginner could do it when next to him IKO teacher with 10y+ experience could not relaunch Juice 16m.

Sure select the kite you want, I was wanted to correct the misconception(s). Perhaps you meant: a kite that can float *you*.

But when foiling I would not go out without a helmet. Helmet has some kg mass. Now you are swimming so mass of helmet is pushing you down because it is not displacing water and if there are small lake waves - you are soon in trouble because bouyancy will move you up and down typically different phase than the waves => So I am not going out without proper PFD either. I use 25N whitewater kayaking PFD normally but 50N is even better. Impact vest is not PFD and my example comes from real world situation where kiter needed to ditch his helmet otherwise he would have drowned after exchausting himself fighting helmet mass and small waves with impact vest. And he was using LEI-kite but it could not save him because it got away.

The learning from above story is, with any kite use PFD.

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Re: One kite for old school AND foiling

Postby SENDIT! » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:49 pm

Disclaimer-I sell Flites

I've been using my Flite 12m and foilboard down to 10mph or so. I'm 240 pies, so that's an incredible feat to me. ;) The Flites are great jumping kites and some of the lightest on the market (for years now). They'll check everyone of your boxes easily, but their drift (in the large sizes 17/14.5) is lacking compared to surf kites. However, as you originally posited, serious jumping ability and drift ability are usually opposites in design. I think the small Flites (12/10/8) are exceptional for foiling in light wind and then going back out and boosting when the winds are up. It's what I've put my own money on! Hope this helps!

SENDIT! :thumb:

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