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Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

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irwe
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby irwe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 pm

I was kiting in Santa Lucia, Cuba a couple of weeks ago. We ended up having unusually light wind. The first day we went to the beach in the late afternoon and there was about 2 - 6 kts of wind. A kiter was out on a large foil kite and KBH. When he came in to shore I helped him land his kite. It turned out to be Benoit (85 kg) of ConceptAir. He was riding an 18 m Pulsion. At times the flag on the beach was down and dead yet he was able to maintain his forward momentum and the kite never touched the water. In the picture below both Benoit and I are riding the Pulsion 12 in 6 - 8 kts. There are ~ 50 kiters on the beach yet most of them could not get out with their light wind gear. One of my KBH buddies (73 kg) with us on the trip ended up getting a Pulsion 12 and loves it for KBH.
Benoit was also foiling with a 6 m Pulsion in 6 - 12 kts. Truly amazing.
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windrider1
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby windrider1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 pm

Haha I think we should stop with these silly wind exaggerations. It doesn’t help people who are looking to spend money on a kite only to find out it doesn’t perform in these conditions. 5 knots would probably be a decent minimum standard to start on a hydrofoil no matter wht brand foil kite. 2 knots will be a kite falling out of the sky. I’ve tested these things myself over many years and there is a point where physics takes over . An LEI Needs about 7 to 8 knots to be usable on the water no matter what u use it for and a foil kite needs about 5 knots . The weight of the materials of each just won’t allow them to perform in under these conditions may be a single skin kite we can take 1 Knt or 2 off the low end but unfortunately 2knt kiting will never happen.

irwe wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 pm
I was kiting in Santa Lucia, Cuba a couple of weeks ago. We ended up having unusually light wind. The first day we went to the beach in the late afternoon and there was about 2 - 6 kts of wind. A kiter was out on a large foil kite and KBH. When he came in to shore I helped him land his kite. It turned out to be Benoit (85 kg) of ConceptAir. He was riding an 18 m Pulsion. At times the flag on the beach was down and dead yet he was able to maintain his forward momentum and the kite never touched the water. In the picture below both Benoit and I are riding the Pulsion 12 in 6 - 8 kts. There are ~ 50 kiters on the beach yet most of them could not get out with their light wind gear. One of my KBH buddies (73 kg) with us on the trip ended up getting a Pulsion 12 and loves it for KBH.
Benoit was also foiling with a 6 m Pulsion in 6 - 12 kts. Truly amazing.

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irwe
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Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 10:13 am
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Local Beach: Keswick
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South Padre Island
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Style: Allaround
Gear: Ocean Rodeo
Slingshot
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby irwe » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:47 pm

I wouldn't have believed it either if I wasn't watching. The flag was on a pole about 5 m high and it was totally lifeless. The kiter was about 200 m away from the flag.
I have launched my 12 m Pulsion (light) in 4 kts from shore often but I wouldn't kite on the water with 4 kts.

windrider1
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby windrider1 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:49 pm

Did u have a wind meter? I’m guessing no.
irwe wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:47 pm
I wouldn't have believed it either if I wasn't watching. The flag was on a pole about 5 m high and it was totally lifeless. The kiter was about 200 m away from the flag.
I have launched my 12 m Pulsion (light) in 4 kts from shore often but I wouldn't kite on the water with 4 kts.

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meteo
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby meteo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:05 pm

Windrider is absolutely right... I own a Pulsion12m... yesterday I went out for a ride and the local guy at the board location shop on the beach could not believe I was going out and that I was only using a 12m... absolutely no white caps to be seen, and wind sensation at 1,5m from the water seemed at about 3 to 4 kts... the water was full of "glacy" spots...I went out any way.. had a great 2 hours of riding... now this guy believes that I can ride in 4kts... Bullshit... there was at least 9kt at 20meters of height... the second the kite was up in the air I knew I had at least 9kts... I know because I did not event needed to downloop the kite to start... I am know to be one of first rider and often only rider to be out on a light day... often feels like less than 6kts... but every time I can verify the winds at more than 10 meters of height... I notice that when I ride there is always more than 6kts... But this is a LOST CAUSE... people will ALWAYS exaggerate, it's human nature and its how legends are made... But I must add, that before riding a Pulsion12m I had racing foils and never would any kind of racing foil of 18m or more would be able to fly in as low winds as a Pulsion12m(unless the rider is Nico Parlier or similar)

PullStrings
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby PullStrings » Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:03 am

windrider1 wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:29 pm
Haha I think we should stop with these silly wind exaggerations. It doesn’t help people who are looking to spend money on a kite only to find out it doesn’t perform in these conditions. 5 knots would probably be a decent minimum standard to start on a hydrofoil no matter wht brand foil kite. 2 knots will be a kite falling out of the sky. I’ve tested these things myself over many years and there is a point where physics takes over . An LEI Needs about 7 to 8 knots to be usable on the water no matter what u use it for and a foil kite needs about 5 knots . The weight of the materials of each just won’t allow them to perform in under these conditions may be a single skin kite we can take 1 Knt or 2 off the low end but unfortunately 2knt kiting will never happen.

irwe wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:01 pm
I was kiting in Santa Lucia, Cuba a couple of weeks ago. We ended up having unusually light wind. The first day we went to the beach in the late afternoon and there was about 2 - 6 kts of wind. A kiter was out on a large foil kite and KBH. When he came in to shore I helped him land his kite. It turned out to be Benoit (85 kg) of ConceptAir. He was riding an 18 m Pulsion. At times the flag on the beach was down and dead yet he was able to maintain his forward momentum and the kite never touched the water. In the picture below both Benoit and I are riding the Pulsion 12 in 6 - 8 kts. There are ~ 50 kiters on the beach yet most of them could not get out with their light wind gear. One of my KBH buddies (73 kg) with us on the trip ended up getting a Pulsion 12 and loves it for KBH.
Benoit was also foiling with a 6 m Pulsion in 6 - 12 kts. Truly amazing.
Agree with you about that.
The real low end of a ram air...18...15...12 sqm can only be accurately measured with onshore wind (a lot less chance of gradient) riding on hard packed sand using a buggy or large wheel landboard
A foilboard will always need 2 more knots more wind speed to lift a person up in the air and get you going at steady speed

4-5knots on buggy equals 6-7 knots on foilboard........and that's not much wind power at all....you barely get any "pull on your strings"...until apparent wind finally...finally... kick in

If it was the case that you go ride in such low wind speeds with ram air kites then they would not cancel a race with winds at 5-6 knots

Everyone would be ripping around the race course powered up with a big smile on their faces having the time of their lives...........i think not

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:56 am

Meteo , You have well summarized the situation ; very hard to put figures on these extreme low ends and indeed people could be disappointed that they cannot ride in similar wind as reported on their spot; I now have a lot of light wind experience with the Pulsion or others, and having personally no fun at all at exagerating, I try to put the maximum objectiveness in all my reports, so here is what I would detail about low end of the Pulsion:

- as repeated often by Pulsion owners, and the most important in my eyes, is that you can ride in lower winds than any other kite (I mean including raising the kite, swiming out and waterstarting) ; already with the 32 gr cloth (my current 12m) ,but even lower with the 27gr cloth (my ex-15m and 18m) , that is really obvious when you try it (including singles struts, race foils, strutless)

- the 32gr cloth flies similarly in the zenith than single skins like peak (i owned both and also confirmed by afoil-kite teacher who also tested back to back with 32gr cloth); 27gr flies earlier than peak, believe me ; reason is certainly that overall weight is similar, while gliding, stability, and recovery loop is better; knowing that for ultimate light wind ride, a minimum of L/D ratio is also important to stay upwind, and Pulsion is far far better than Single skin on this feature.

- relaunch is also far better that other kite in low end, provided that the 27gr cloth does not remain more than 5 minutes in the water and without manipulation error (32 gr is more forgiving)

So , definitelly hard to put wind values on that because people rarely precise the elevatrion of their wind estimation or measure ; on op of that the measurement is not accurate in such low winds : for example my limit riding speed measurement is 0-1 knot on one wind meter while my second windmeter indicates 2-3 knot. This is at 2m elevation; I have the chance to have a wind-up station at about 12 meter elevation on this spot for comparision, it generally indicates approx 3-5 knots but located on top of a rock wall (hence probably a little local compression effect that acceclerate the wind locally); I would say that I can ride when other foilkite have to be looped on the beach to stay in the air; my light single strut LEI of course cannot stay in the air even with loops on the beach; that is my personal limit and IMO the best advise for people to feel this low end correctly;

I put here again one video that I made this automn (with my former 15m, now replaced by a fresh-new 18m), just to illustrate the type of wind I can target (I must precise that I am a light weight rider + large wing foil + long thin lines);

phpBB [video]


I would never have done this with another foilkite, including S4 Lotus, I am sure; I understand experienced people doubts, but I can only advise them to test one one when possible in low end (high end is not its best feature); we must also precise that as soon as you can ride with a race foilkite ( say 1-2 more knots to my estimation), you will ride with more speed and upwind angle with the race kite (which can be considered as a better low end from this race point of view);

Regis-de-giens
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 570
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Concept'air 12m Pulsion kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:58 am

Meteo , You have well summarized the situation ; very hard to put figures on these extreme low ends and indeed people could be disappointed that they cannot ride in similar wind measured on their spot ; I now have a lot of light wind experience with the Pulsion or others, and have personally no fun at all at exagerating, so I try to put the maximum objectiveness in all my reports, and here is what I would detail about low end of the Pulsion:

- as repeated often by Pulsion owners, and the most important in my eyes, is that you can ride in lower winds than any other kite (I mean including launching the kite, swiming-out and waterstarting) ; it is tghe case with the 32 gr cloth (my current 12m) ,but even lower with the 27gr cloth (my ex-15m and 18m) . That is really obvious when you try it (including singles struts, race foils, strutless)

- the 32gr cloth flies similarly in the zenith than single skins like peak (i owned both and also confirmed by afoil-kite teacher who also tested back to back with 32gr cloth); 27gr flies earlier than peak, on watert on on snow, believe me ; reason is certainly that overall weight is similar, while gliding, stability, and recovery loop is better in the Pulsion; and knowing that for ultimate light wind ride, a minimum of L/D ratio is also important to stay upwind, and Pulsion is far far better than Single skin on this feature.

- relaunch is also far better that other kite in low end, provided that the 27gr cloth does not remain more than 5 minutes in the water and without manipulation errors (32 gr is more forgiving)

So , definitelly hard to put wind values on that because people rarely precise the elevatrion of their wind estimation or measure ; on top of that the measurement is not accurate in such low winds : for example my limit riding speed measurement is 0-1 knot on one wind meter while my second windmeter indicates 2-3 knot. This is at 2m elevation; I have the chance to have a wind-up station at about 12 meter elevation on this spot for comparision, it generally indicates approx 3-5 knots but located on top of a rock wall (hence probably a little local compression effect that acceclerate the wind locally); I would say that I can ride when other foilkite does not launch without running backward and have to be looped on the beach to stay in the air once pressurized; my light single strut LEI of course cannot stay in the air even with loops on the beach; that is my personal limit and IMO the best advise for people to feel this low end correctly;

I put here again one video that I made this automn (with my former 15m, now replaced by a fresh-new 18m), just to illustrate the type of wind I can target (I must precise that I am a light weight rider + large wing foil + long thin lines); It was not the lowest wind I ever made, but the best with a camera

phpBB [video]


I would never have done this with another foilkite, including S4 Lotus, I am sure; I understand experienced people doubts, but I can only advise them to test one one when possible in low end (high end is not its best feature); we must also precise that as soon as you can ride with a race foilkite ( say 1-2 more knots to my estimation), you will ride with more speed and upwind angle with the race kite (which can be considered as a better low end from this race point of view);


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