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Ozone speed system adjustment

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foilholio
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Sat Oct 22, 2016 9:36 am

I am talking about INSIDE the seam on the TE.

I think we are talking about the same thing.

Get a jet of water in there and it washes out, well mostly. Still doesn't make me love them anymore than I hate them now. I never remember PL having this issue. Seems the good PL ideas get ignored while other questionable ones like the TE mesh gather a following...

Slyde
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:36 am

This is a very useful thread. Checked the bridles on my 11m Chrono V2 last night. One side was out by 5cm the other by 4cm. So I added the pigtails as recommended by Gunnar and got ABC perfectly aligned. Flew the kite today and the tips just folded in. Basically the kite was unflyable. It seems to me that if you add this pigtail you are effectively lengthening the Z line by ½ the length of the pigtail. So presumably I should now shorten the Z knot by half the length of the pigtail. Can anyone advise if my logic is correct and has experienced this issue?
Thanks

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gmb13
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:37 am

That is strange behaviour. The pigtail should have no effect on the length of the Z. UNLESS you have put the pigtail on the wrong side of the C pulley line. It should be on the front lines side of the pulley line.

Also did you make sure that the knot on the pigtail was pulled really tight before flying it? did you check if the lengths where still correct after flying it?



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Slyde
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Sat Nov 05, 2016 6:23 pm

Yep, there was no knot stretch and I have the pigtail on the correct side of the line. I'll do some line measurement today. Btw I had noticed that the kite was pulling a little to one side before I did the adjustment. I presume this was because of uneven stretch?
Thanks for contributing so much. Getting sand out of the trailing edge seam is nearly impossible so I'm waiting on your video.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Sun Nov 13, 2016 6:39 pm

just to follow-up I flew the kite again yesterday with the speed system zero'd. It was basically unflyable - the tip folded in about 1.5 m from the edges. Then I set the speed system back to its 4-5 cm offset position and the kite flew better but still folded a little. So I measured the bridle. By the time I had measured about a dozen bridle lines I found they were all shrunk by 2-4 cm so I think I better replace the whole bridle system. Seems kinda wierd as I thought the whole Idea of the Chrono was that the bridle was less problematic than the R1. Also weird in that the session I had prior to the speed system adjustment was one of my best ever and the kite flew fine except I noticed it pulled to the left a little. Just posting this in case anyone else has had the same issues. Lets see what a new bridle set does. Otherwise till now this has been a superb kite.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Mon Nov 14, 2016 1:18 am

An old kite behaving weird with a level mixer is not unusual nor are the bridles shrinking, 2-4cm is nothing. You can restretch the bridles and or make adjustments to achieve what you want.

I take it by "zero'd" you mean you aligned ABC? You need to adjust Z, it's the most critical.

Ok I read back a few threads
Slyde wrote: got ABC perfectly aligned. Flew the kite today and the tips just folded in. Basically the kite was unflyable. It seems to me that if you add this pigtail you are effectively lengthening the Z line by ½ the length of the pigtail. So presumably I should now shorten the Z knot by half the length of the pigtail. Can anyone advise if my logic is correct and has experienced this issue?
I take you added pigtails to extend B and C, (either at the mains or pulley lines)? Ok the effect with that is not Z is longer but shorter!,HENCE your stability problems! The solution is not to shorten Z further! (slap in the head for you all!) but to add a pigtail to lengthen Z as well, make it a bit adjustable so you can have a play and change the feel and learn about wings/kites/aerodynamics/etc.
gmb13 wrote:The pigtail should have no effect on the length of the Z. UNLESS you have put the pigtail on the wrong side of the C pulley line. It should be on the front lines side of the pulley line.
While true in the literal sense , you altered C pulley line and not Z, it is sadly WRONG in the sense of if you understand how mixers work. A mixer works on a RATIO of the different components and hence the use of ratios to describe them, if you change one length it is the same had you left it the same but changed the others.




Flying to one side is because something is uneven :D. Could be the kites shape i.e. fabric, or the bridles,or the mixer especially the pulley lines which do it all the time, but also there is the often forgotten flying lines, which are often not :D even even :D when they are made. You check in order of what is easiest, so flying lines, mixer, bridles, etc. And if after that it still flys to one side or in fact may now be worse! you MAY or MAY NOT! have made a mistake. Anyway if you check all the lines and fix them and it still goes to one side you need to alter the fabric, I have written about it elsewhere much to "THEexperts" dismay :lol:.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:56 am

So are you saying I should reset ABC to be level then add a pigtail to Z so I can lengthen it bit by bit until it flies properly again??
Suddenely LEIs seem so much easier. Guess I'm a lazy kiter.

foilholio
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:50 pm

Pretty much. If you tell me how long the extension/s are and where you put them I can give you a good guess to extend Z. I will try anyway it's not complicated :-), I am going to assume you put them on the C pulley line, if that is the case you need to extend Z with a pigtail the SAME length as the current pigtail on the C pulley line and the kite should behave similar but not exactly the same!

Other than getting your kite flying right you can adjust Z to get more low end or better upwind, it's good to have a couple of knots on a pigtail etc so you can just swap it each side and try. It's hardly give up on foils and go back to LEIs territory, we are talking about 2 bits of line with some figure eight knots in them. :roll: :lol:

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gmb13
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:38 am

Hi guys,

This might be of interest for some of you. This is how I do a proper speed system and bridle check and tune.

If you have a pro tune system you can pretty much skip the part where I add pigtails.


phpBB [video]


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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby kitexpert » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:25 pm

Hmm, I don't know if it is wise to include single primary bridle lines in that measurement and use results for the whole wing. The most centered primary bridles are the longest of them all (and seem unfortunately unnecessary long in that kite (R1?)), and alter their lenght more than the others.

General problem with line shrinks/stretch is they are far from uniform. Line lenghts and loadings vary quite a lot in different parts of the wing.

Good bridle design is also better against these out of tune problems, but as we know longevity of the products is not so important these days.

Actually brakes need more lenghtening than added C pigtail suggest, because they are further back. But because brake tightness is a bit matter of taste it is best to adjust by feel.

I would do some more measuremants from the different levels of the bridle and then stretch lines back to original lenghts. Quick fix could be to concentrate on the longest and most essential (worst) lines, but right way is to do them all. I do stretching always by pairs, so symmetry between the sides is assured.

This is just how foil kites are. High AR kites suffer most, because they are more sensitive. Some Frenzy or Pulsion type kite with a lot of bridle and longer chord may not have these problems at all.


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