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Ozone speed system adjustment

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gmb13
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:19 pm

You are right about optimally measuring the entire brilde and readjusting every line, but that will take ages and in most cases will not make a huge difference.

When you reset the relationships between the A, B and C you will get a pretty good result. How you proceed after that is up to you. I personally don't have the time to invest 2-3 hours per kite.

You would be surprised how uniformly the bridle lines shrink. On all my R1 kites all the Risers shrink about 40mm uniformly across the kite. Usually just 1mm or 2mm variance between.

--
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:11 am

gmb13 wrote:
phpBB [video]


--
Gunnar
This is what is called a "long mixer test". I may have missed it but you should include Z in the calculation. Arbitrarily moving it does not follow the same goals. May I also suggest you larkshead the pulleys onto the new pigtails so further alterations are much easier with no full mixer disassembly needed. You could also make these alterations at the pulley lines like previously mentioned in this thread.

The long mixer test can produce ok results "sometimes", while being straight forward in how it is done. It has errors that it doesn't account for the spanwise differences in the bridles, which can be very big and it won't account for fabric changes in the kite. Restretching the bridles will take care of the spanwise change but is not permanent, hand tuning the mixer or bridles could account for both, but is a skill in itself. If as you say this kite doesn't have much spanwise change then the long mixer test is a good option, just make sure you include Z.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby revhed » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:39 am

Thanks G for vlog format and "long mixer" adjust info. :thumb:
I searched quickly Ozone site to find bridal chart for my old Chrono V1 but failed, does anyone know where to find this bridal chart on line?
And I think I miss just where you get your "A" to "B" to "C" differences in length?
Thanks also to all the others who so kindly post info as sure hope to get my kite flying as well as can be expected considering its like me old age!
R H

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:07 am

Hi Revhed,

The link to the chart is in the description of the Youtube video. You need to be watching it on the youtube site to see it.

Look up A1, B1 and C1 on thw Chart. Then A1 minus B1 and A1 minus C1 to get the differences.



Here is the list again:
-----------

Here is where you can download the Bridle Check PDF files:

ChronoV2: http://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/pr ... -Check.pdf

R1V2: http://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/pr ... -Check.pdf

R1: http://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/pr ... -Check.pdf

ChronoV1: http://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/pr ... -Check.pdf

--
Gunnar

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:14 am

foilholio wrote:
gmb13 wrote:
phpBB [video]


--
Gunnar
This is what is called a "long mixer test". I may have missed it but you should include Z in the calculation. Arbitrarily moving it does not follow the same goals. May I also suggest you larkshead the pulleys onto the new pigtails so further alterations are much easier with no full mixer disassembly needed. You could also make these alterations at the pulley lines like previously mentioned in this thread.

The long mixer test can produce ok results "sometimes", while being straight forward in how it is done. It has errors that it doesn't account for the spanwise differences in the bridles, which can be very big and it won't account for fabric changes in the kite. Restretching the bridles will take care of the spanwise change but is not permanent, hand tuning the mixer or bridles could account for both, but is a skill in itself. If as you say this kite doesn't have much spanwise change then the long mixer test is a good option, just make sure you include Z.
I did include Z (Brakes). Basically you lengthen by the same amount you lengthened Cs.

In regards to spanwise shrinkage. It actually does not impact the performance to the same degree. Most people will not notice the difference. Basically getting the relationships between A, B, C and Z rows back in order will vastly improve the performance of the kites.

For most people restretching every single bridle line is just not an option. On average that will take you 2-3 Hours per kite, and the lines will shrink again fairly quickly. For the amount of gains you will get for it, it is just not worth it for an everyday user.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:07 pm

Yes I got that you lengthened Z as much as C, but why not measure and compare like you did for B and C? That is my point on that.

Restretching bridles does not take 2-3hours, it is about 30mins, but still annoying and I guess more or less time depending on how you setup to do it.

On the many flysurfers I have measured the spanwise differences from tip to center can be quite large any where up to 15-20cm with 2-8cm common. If you are adjusting out 2-5cm at the center you may then be throwing the kite out 2-5cm at the tips. Spanwise changes have quite an effect on a kite I know this from comparing restretched to shrunk to shrunk with long mixer test and everything in between, including modifying the spanwise bridle shape to create different effects. Infact by just changing the spanwise bridles you can basically make a different kite. Which brings me back to Z, for some reason Ozone completely ignores it and Flysurfer mostly ignores it and I think this creates problems for users. You see Z is one of the most important bridles, it can alter a kites behavior in such drastic ways. For some strange reason Flysurfer went the path of adjusting B and C, when they could have really simplified things and played more or just with Z. That is not to say adjusting B and C is not needed, they are. Also strange though because Ozone had a Z adjustment but no B and C adjustments, obviously now they do but they also look a bit weird because of their pulley choice.

For the average user yes the long mixertest is a good option but so is restretching, well that is my opinion. Restretching thin race bridles though is not something I have done, it may not work well for them.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby kitexpert » Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:36 pm

How uniformly lines alter their lenghts is complex matter, at least in FS's there is quite a lot variability. I don't know why Ozones would be any better in that respect. Adding pigtails corrects line shrink in the middle of the wing, but because shorter and less loaded bridles closer to wingtips have not that much error they are overcorrected. Also chord of the wing is shorter there, this makes overcorrection even bigger.

As we know it is wingtips that often cause problems when kite goes out of tune.

"Spanwise shrinkage", effecting curvature of the wing (canopy curve), is not essential at all. Essential is that in spanwise bridle lenghts, bridle loading and chord lenght are variable. This means chordwise errors are variable and so should be corrections as well.

It is true stretching every bridle line is quite a work and results are not permanent. But I don't know if strecthed bridle is any worse than like it was originally, it may be even better. To replace the bridle is even bigger work and it costs.
gmb13 wrote:I did include Z (Brakes). Basically you lengthen by the same amount you lengthened Cs.
Like I wrote, this is too little if compared to original. But if tighter brakes is ok then why not. About twice the C correction would keep brakes the same they were before, depending the location of C line row in particular kite.

Problem when doing these kind of approximate fixes is that kite becomes gradually worse. If you are a pro and get new kites regularly it is not as harmful than for normal user who wants (or have to) to keep his expensive kites for years. But for sure that kind of quick fix usually helps and is easily done.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:22 pm

Thanks Gunnar, another very useful video, I do see the rationale for just concentrating on A1, B1, C1, as it seems impractical to check and stretch/pigtail every component of the bridle. Earlier in this thread you showed your technique for adjusting the speed system. It seems my kite has both speed system shrinkage and bridle shrinkage. If so I would have thought that I should first zero the speed system and then adjust A1, B1, C1 as the second step, but it seems from your video that you think that if you adjust A1, B1, C1 the speed system can be ignored (with the exception of Z)?? Have I interpreted this correctly??
BTW if the protune system means you can ignore adding the pigtails would it be easier to simply upgrade to the protune system and be done with it??
TIA

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gmb13 » Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:12 pm

Hi Slyde,

Yes you can pretty much ignore zeroing the speed system, however it makes sense to keep it as close to zero as possible. So if you want to do it 100% correct, you would zero the speed system first.

Yes. If your speed system is on its last legs you should definitely invest in the pro tune upgrade. First of all it makes tuning much easier, but best of all the pulley lines don't shrink, so you only have to worry about bridle shrinkage.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Thu Nov 24, 2016 10:35 am

gmb13 wrote: best of all the pulley lines don't shrink
Care to back up that unbelievable statement? I have never seen a piece of rope stay the same length, so I am assuming they stretch. Aswell why add adjustments with instructions to zero/level the mixer if you don't need them.
Slyde wrote:Thanks Gunnar, another very useful video
It's somewhat useful but not comprehensive enough.
Slyde wrote: I do see the rationale for just concentrating on A1, B1, C1
Then you have either ignored what I have typed for you so good luck and I am obviously wasting my time, or well I don't want to say.
Slyde wrote: as it seems impractical to check and stretch/pigtail every component of the bridle
checking yes, stretching no.


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