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Ozone speed system adjustment

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revhed
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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby revhed » Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:56 pm

Super pleased to have read, done and understood "long mixer test, adjust, thanks Gunner!
Having already done mixer tune was pleased to find long test including bridals was within a cm.
Question?
Any way to include D,Z, K... TE bridals into long mixer test, tune? I see that the attachment point is offset a vert panel.
I also note that my A1 shrunk 2 cm, B1 1 cm, and C1 3 cm so not at all the same.
Any chance someone could do a video showing and explaining bridal stretching PLEASE!
R H

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:49 pm

Of course you can measure the TE bridles in a long mixer test. Even though the K1(Z) attachment is offset a cell you can still compare it to the A1,B1,C1. It is just likely to have a bigger difference because it is on another cell. It is not important to lay the kite out as meticulously as Gunnar does, you just need the bridles untangled and clear so you can pull them in straight lines. As you see Gunnar even ends up with the kite all bunched up to do the measuring/comparison.

Restretching I answered here viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392935
Slyde wrote:Wow, Foilholio how come the nuclear bomb at me? Your advice was well received and will be of great use to me. Gunnars advice is also very useful. I will use all of it. Its not a contest between advisors. I'm sure you are a very experienced foil kiter and so is Gunnar. Lets keep this constructive eh.
Kiting is for joy, relaxation and positive energy. Thats why i do it anyway.
Peace brother.
Sorry, I read your post in reply to Gunnar and it seemed like you ignored what I wrote. Ozone's desire to do things "different" is a bit naive. Them ignoring Z is why you are having your issues. Flysurfer have their own problems but I am not fond of Ozone introducing new ones that are unnecessary, like renaming things weirdly. It's hard enough trying to understand foils with out each brand using a different language.

I don't have an interest in competing with Gunnar, I just like to see the best info available and in that regard Gunnars advice lacks a bit. I appreciate his effort especially previous videos like how to launch/land foils etc.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Fri Nov 25, 2016 5:39 pm

Ok, fwiw I have set up my speed system according to your advice but am waiting for a day that's not too windy to tune z. It's been really windy here recently so just been riding my 7 m edge. I will let you know how it works out when I finally get the chance.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby mgs » Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:54 pm

I managed to test my Chrono 9m a few weeks back since equalising the speed system by applying the pigtail extensions to the “C” pulley line and experienced wing tip tuck for the very first time. However the lack of “Z” line tuning looks to be the cause of that. :oops:

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby revhed » Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:42 pm

[quote="foilholio"
Restretching I answered here viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2392935
.[/quote]
:thumb:
Any chance a video so we can see please. :D
R H
I will check my T E bridals, long mixer test, D1 (still do not s get why it is not "D" as in paragliding, not Z or K or whatever) in relation to A tomorrow.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Sat Nov 26, 2016 3:52 am

Haha one day maybe :-) I will have to time myself next time I do it. 2-3hrs it does not take lol.

I thought they called it Z on paragliders as well?, I have seen it called D but there is parafoils with more than 4 bridle rows like 5 and 6. Z basically means last and I think it's appropriate. Even Flysurfer has fallen into the rename game and now labels Z, BR for brakes. :roll:
mgs wrote:I managed to test my Chrono 9m a few weeks back since equalising the speed system by applying the pigtail extensions to the “C” pulley line and experienced wing tip tuck for the very first time. However the lack of “Z” line tuning looks to be the cause of that.
Yes the lack of Z adjustment will be the cause. If you add an extension to C pulley line, you are altering the profile in the same way had you shortened Z for the same amount. The only difference is you may or may not have altered the depower(B) limit on the mixer. Only reason I can't say for certain on that is I don't know the what limits the depower(B) on the Ozone mixer and Gunnar won't answer other than give me a mixer plan with the exact knot positions missing. If someone was to merely stand on the frontmain(pigtail) and pull B to full extension and then tell me what limits it's travel that would answer that, no cryptic pictures needed lol.

Maybe before you go altering Z as well you need to think why were you adding an extension to C in the first place? Reason being is because if the kite was flying wrong with no extension to C, once you add the Z extension it will just fly the same as before(excluding the depower thing). What you may find is Z needs a longer extension than C, as it is normal for Z to shrink the most of all bridles as it has nearly no tension most of the time. The long mixer test will tell you how much to adjust it, but without spanwise correction. Z actually shrinks the most in the middle. What I can suggest ,and it's something I have been meaning to try, is do a long mixer test in the CENTER and then one at the TIP. Average the results for each row and then use them as the amounts to alter the mixer by. So for example you get at the center A0 B-2 C-4 Z-8 then at the tip A0 B-1 C-2 Z-4. Add them together divide by 2 and you get A0 B-1.5 C-3 Z-6. With those numbers if you added an extension of 6 to C pulley line and another of 6 to Z main you would have a much closer profile to original.

Aswell something I don't do is restretching just Z. Doing so will give you the best results for the least work I think. But then once you are setup restretching the other bridles really isn't much work at all.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby Slyde » Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:57 am

OK had a perfect light wind afternoon to do some adjusting on the 11m ChronoV2. Did the speed system adjustment, then the long mixer A,B,C adjustment and then progressively lengthened Z. Got the kite so that there is no tip tucking and she just hangs in the sky with no tendency to tip collapse. Then backed Z off just a little more but I may have gone too far as she seems harder to backstall and reverse relaunch now, but she flies great in pretty light breeze (maybe 6 knots breeze) and still turns nicely. Will recheck Z on my next session.
Thanks for the advice Gunnar and Foilholio. I was surprised at just how much length I needed to add to Z -maybe 10-12 cm (haven't measured).
I used some old 500kg front kitelines to make the pigtails. Hope this will be strong enough with a knot in it.
Still waiting for the video on how to get sand out Gunnar, because I cant seem to get rid of what I have in the rear seam nomatter what I try.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby foilholio » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:18 pm

Yes you can adjust Z a large amount, it is a 421 mixer so Z moves 4 times as much as B, 3cm B adjustment is similar to a 12cm Z. There is quite light forces on Z so a pigtail could be made from doubled 100-200kg line with little issue. The majority of the kite forces sit on A and B, less on C then even less on Z. It's why Z shrinks the most because the lines have the least load. On flysurfer about the only bridles that hold a consistent length is A, but they still shrink a little, especially on the tips where the density of the bridles or spacing is much tighter so again the bridles have less load and in turn shrink more.

The kite being harder to relaunch can be for a few reasons. Off my head here are some.

1 the camber has decreased which can make relaunch more difficult. Not much to do on that except increase it back. Something like a WAC line improves relaunch, with other positives and some negatives.

2 you could be running out of travel on your pulley lines because of the pigtail blocking the pulley. Simply move it around so the knot doesn't block the pulley.

3 you have changed the range on the mixer. Which is likely after I checked how the ozone checks/corrects the mixer. Basically the mixer check with Ozone relies on the A main length to compare against, so basically if that shrinks then so does the length you correct the pulley line and it in turn is then too short. End result is less depower and power, less movement of the canopy, so relaunch will be harder especially on the bigger kites which need more mixer range because of their size. To check for this is easy just measure your total A main so PA1+PA2( I am hating the naming even more after looking those up :-) ). To correct it you'll need to either extend Amain to it's correct length then do the Ozone way of checking/adjusting or adopt some of the flysurfer method and adjust the mains for B and C in addition to adjusting the pulley line back to it's correct length. I also add it is not quite as simple as just the A main being the correct length, B and C mains need to be the correct length too :-/. You'll need to set everything A B C mains and the pulley lines to be there correct length. Now I am starting to understand why flysurfer adopted their method.

4 you moved the mixer to depower more, but I can't think of that happening without the mixer range increasing so :-/

5 and this is very likely, by extending Z you have moved the power point further away so your relaunch strap is less effective. I would just adjust your line lengths, shorter rears or longer fronts.

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gurke » Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:54 am

http://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/pr ... -Check.pdf

what is in the example right? move Pb1 up by 20mm or 40mm?

they write 20 in the text and show 40 in the picture

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Re: Ozone speed system adjustment

Postby gurke » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:04 pm

ok 20mm is right in the example


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