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Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

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gurke
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Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby gurke » Mon Oct 26, 2015 4:20 pm

Hi

is here anyone who could test all three kites or at least two of them?

What are the strong or maybe weaker points of them?

Cheers

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby Mossy 757 » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:22 pm

No experience with any of the above, but...

I've had my ear to the ground for this info for a while in preparation to buy a foil kite, and what I can figure out is that people who were on Chrono's and got R1's either ended up going back to their Chrono or heavily tuning their R1's. There are a lot of brand new R1's for sale on the used market...

F-One apparently does NOT have an adjustable mixer control, which may or may not be a big deal, but since this is version 1.1 of the kite on the market and most if not all of the people riding right now are sponsored or team riders, its longevity is yet to be proven. That's an important factor for us "regular guys" when making a major purchase like a brand new kite.

No idea about the new Elf.

For what it's worth, I'm going with a Flysurfer Sonic. They've been making durable foils for water for a while, the Sonic has been consistently competitive in course racing, and they have a tunable mixer so that you don't need to cut/splice bridles or ghetto rig the kite with shortening knots if it goes out of tune.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby gurke » Mon Oct 26, 2015 10:28 pm

hi

hmmm. You mean the R1 is not stable enough or doesn't fly good? I only heard positive things about the flying characteristics. Just the swimming performance is bad, i heard.

Someone told me, that the Diablo gets broken really fast. Anyone can confirm this?

I hope we get in the futures more kites like the sonic or the Chrono V2 also in Racing. It would be a pity, if they only gets more performance by loosing durability.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:59 pm

R1 is uber stable IMO. The Chrono 2 is a riot. Easy as heck to fly for a high AR wing and built with durability in mind over raw performance. The 9m is my favorite. The Sonic IMO falls in between the R1 and Chrono V2. Stable, fast and easy.

Fwiw.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby coleman » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:16 pm

Hardwater Kiter wrote:R1 is uber stable IMO. The Chrono 2 is a riot. Easy as heck to fly for a high AR wing and built with durability in mind over raw performance. The 9m is my favorite. The Sonic IMO falls in between the R1 and Chrono V2. Stable, fast and easy.

Fwiw.
any thoughts on what the windrange might be on the 9m chrono v2 with a hydrofoil?

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:09 pm

I haven't gotten any feedback yet on the 9m with a foil. FWIW we just sold a 13m and on a foil in 10kts is really amazing from what our customer has indicated. And 10 kts is the bottom of the factory spec range for the 13m on a TT.

You're weight and flying ability are going to be substantial factors of course but I would hazard a guess based on what I've been told, the 9m would be a lot of fun in the 12kt range up to about 20kts+ with a foil. The 9m is pretty easy to throw around and you can get a lot of power out of it for a smallish kite.

As much as lower AR kites with considerably more sail on them.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Nov 10, 2015 2:53 pm

I was at the St. Pete regatta this weekend and got some good feedback from the top riders on which kites work best.

Here's what I figured out:

R1 - total garbage, collapses for like no reason and has a tendency to bowtie-twist when collapsing, guaranteeing a swim home. Nobody was riding one out of 27 competitors, and those who had experience with the kite felt comfortable talking trash openly. Most of these guys who have experience with Chronos love them and some still ride them as their primary race kite, just think Ozone struck out with the R1.

Joker 5 - Great kite when tuned, requires a lot of love to keep it flying nicely; everyone I talked to said their kite needed to be tuned right out of the bag, didn't come "ready to fly" from the factory. I have an old Joker 5 that I just picked up and felt really good with it, but it needs some love and there has clearly been a compromise between durability and light weight materials in favor of weight savings. Amazingly balanced bar pressure between front and rear lines, VERY different feeling than an LEI where all your power comes from pulling in the rear lines. A high-end toy for gear heads who enjoy tinkering.

Sonic FR - by far the heaviest out of the bag due to stronger materials, but arguably just as fast upwind as any other kite on the course. Bridles are significantly heavier weight than the Joker and F-One, about comparable to a Chrono but more organized and easier. From what I can tell, the Sonic is the most "beginner friendly" of the high aspect depower foils available for racing. It also has really clean adjustment points for tuning. Heavy bar pressure.

Diablo - Fastest kite, very light weight, flies great out of the bag without any futzing around. Talking to the top riders, they think it's about even with the Sonic upwind, but has a slight edge downwind because it creates more straight line grunt towards the leeward mark. Folks were saying the kite has lots of front line pressure and very light bar pressure.


Recommendations:

Total newbie to foil kites - Sonic
Experienced with foil kites looking to win races - Diablo
Land-base rider (snow/buggy) who can easily walk downwind and unfu*ck a twisted (overpriced) kite - R1
Fluent Russian speaker who wants to tinker with their gear all the time - Joker5

Nobody had a Joker 6, so some of the problems I highlighted with the 5 may be remedied in the new kite.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby foilholio » Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:46 am

Really surprised to hear that about the R1. I have watched the road flysurfer has traveled and there is a lot of learning from paraglider to user friendly water foil.

I found the bar pressure on the Sonic very light. Also note with the mixer system on foils the bar pressure changes with setup. I think flysurfer chose a good compromise of performance and user friendliness.

You'll notice the other thread discussing the Diablo Line, that gives better grunt, low end and downwind. This can be adapted to any foil kite quite easily. Also note Paraavis has another system that probably works better.

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby stefarius » Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:39 am

To make it even more complex. My experience is the equipment under your feet is pretty important.
Tried the Flysurfer Sonic 18 with a big twin tip and the Speed4 would be better. With a hydrofoil I would go for the Sonic because it's total de-power and power control.
More Flysurfer Sonic reviews: http://www.kitefinder.com/en/kites/1453 ... ic-fr-2015

The Ozone Chrono had some tweaking between 2014 and 2015 series. Made the Chrono more stable and easier to ride & glide. The adjustments made the Chrono less playful, but accessible for a wider public. Watch more user reviews about the Ozone Chrono: http://www.kitefinder.com/en/kites/1359 ... er-reviews

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Re: Ozone R1/F-one Diablo/Elf Joker 6

Postby Hardwater Kiter » Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:42 pm

I agree with stefarius. What you have on your feet is easily as important as what you have in the air.

My experiences with the R1 have been good so far. There is nothing in it that I have had an issues with yet. Maybe after some more substantial use things may arise and I'll be forced to tune out some issues but the R1's we have fly much like my Chrono 1's but much less labor intensive in general and a lot less tip curl in heavy steering or uber light winds.

In comparing my 17m R1 to our 18m Sonic it's hard to say which is "better". The rider makes the kite and I feel that it doesn't matter what brand, if the rider is good at what they do they will come out on top regardless of the kite. Especially when everyone, is making great kites with great performance. The R1 feels faster to me. The Sonic, more grunt which for my needs on snow can equate to more speed than a kite that happens to be fast. The Sonic, compared to the Chrono v.1 is definitely a much nicer, user friendly race wing which helps it appeal to LEI riders getting into foil kites. The R1 however is pretty close in terms of user friendliness. And the new Chrono is super easy to work with but the Chrono name has some bad juju for some after all the horror stories (some justifiable, most not) from people who tried the original Chrono.

In terms of an all round great kite that can do just about anything, I have to say the Chrono V.2 is probably the ticket for my tastes. Launches like an open cell, turns fast and has enough of the original's DNA to be a formidable race kite in the right hands.

The Chrono V1 is much more race worthy, as is probably the Sonic, but I think one could hold their own with the Chrono v.2. IMO


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