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Funalexed Pansh Aurora

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foilholio
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Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:27 am

Has any one done it? Here are the files.
Pansh Aurora xls_bridle.xls
(11.5 KiB) Downloaded 133 times
Booste ta Pansh Aurora 12m - Niaboo.pdf
(70.43 KiB) Downloaded 162 times
Reading currently through the thread on Tubelesskite http://www.tubelesskite.net/t4779-pansh-aurora

Pansh has recently updated their bridle on the Aurora and are complete aholes unwilling to provide any measurements of anything. eh what do you expect?

Hoping to change my 22 to be more C and stable depowered. Any suggestions?

kitexpert
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby kitexpert » Sat Nov 14, 2015 4:01 pm

"Hoping to change my 22 to be more C and stable depowered."

And me hoping to get more horsepower and better economy for my car...

If kite is not stable enough when depowered, there is not much to do. Used airfoil is just not good at stability, for that AR and other parameters (A line row position, airfoil thickness, coning etc.) designed in that kite.

Getting more camber ("more C" ?) makes kite even more unstable, if it is not done at high AoA's only.

The bridle of Aurora seems not to be a very good design. Slightly better way to group primary lines is possible, but I don't think it would make kite noticeable better. Probably kite should be redesigned from the beginning, cell number is a bit low for that kind of kite and used airfoil apparently not stable enough.

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sat Nov 14, 2015 10:58 pm

Change modify the engine, wheels, take out the seats, lots of things can be done.

Foil kites are highly adaptable. As is evident by triple depower, plain old camber changes and the people who have used this mod.

Pansh reduced the cell count on the A15 and improved performance with splitcells. Admittedly they reduced the AR slightly as well.

You can radically change stability with just camber changes. But I am not talking about that. I want to change the ARC of the kite.

How would you regroup the bridles? Can you post a picture. Have you actually seen a Aurora in real life? The bridle is actually IMO quite good. It's one of the most aggressively short bridles I have ever seen, shorter than the P4.

Anyway, you should go have read of FunAlex's posts on tubeless kite forum. He is actually a real KiteEXPERT. A true GURU of foilkites.

kitexpert
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby kitexpert » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:59 pm

I thought I was the guru of the foilkites... 8)

"I want to change the ARC of the kite."

You mean canopy curve? Hmm, it may affect stability of the kite, but more of it decreases projected area which is usually not desired. It creates also some slack to the lower skins of the cells and some tightening (distortion) to upper skins. In other words, bulging and wrinkles. But of course something can be done with adjusting canopy curve.

Correctly done whole bridle must be redesigned.

"Pansh reduced the cell count on the A15 and improved performance with splitcells. Admittedly they reduced the AR slightly as well."

Splitcells? You mean mini-ribs or half cell diagonal ribs? I couldn't see any signs of those and I can see from the bridle that full cell D-ribs are used. But if Aurora has miniribs like sonic, fine.

Tendency in high performance foilkites is to increase cell count and AR. But I think the limits of this development are now more or less reached.

"How would you regroup the bridles? Can you post a picture. Have you actually seen a Aurora in real life? The bridle is actually IMO quite good. It's one of the most aggressively short bridles I have ever seen, shorter than the P4."

I checked Aurora bridle from the Pansh website and I have not seen Aurora in real life. What I saw is far from short bridle, on the opposite some primary lines were stupidly long, they had no secondary bridle at all. And some other strange things too, like very long c6 and c7.

I would regroup primarys 2 -2 -2 for the A and 3 -2 -2 for B and C. Brakes are ok. Then only 3 secondary lines per row/kiteside would be enough, instead of 4 (of which 2 is now just overly long primary lines). But this is not ideal either, since the design is not optimal.

Flysurfer used for a long time too long bridle, especially primaryes. Latest kites have finally improved.

foilholio:
"You can radically change stability with just camber changes."

Unfortunately this is only partial usable when kite is depowered. Kite is then at the edge of the wind window, bar is sheeted out. This is the situation when kites stability is really tested. Kite then flies mainly by its A row, and if you try to decrease camber by distorting airfoil (tightening B-C) you lose some depower, because it also increases AoA between A to B-C. Also bar pressure increases.

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:00 am

I cant find much I disagree with you there.

The Diagram on the website does illustrate the structure which is somewhat stupid, but not the lengths which are very short, too short infact.

Split cells or Miniribs? The Aurora doesn't have them, Panshs new kite the A15 does. Which is alot better designed than the Aurora...

I am going to start reposting the interesting posts from tubeless kite forum.

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:00 am

funalex Sun December 16, 2012 - 1:32 p.m.

Just back from a test of the aurora 12m ... how can one compare that to a speed ...? no,

let's be serious. it's a beautiful disaster that wing, maybe some forced mixer to force

better behavior, but really much I could see on the videos and photos she not appear at

the top, but it's the little say. I spent an hour this morning to make some mods to find

its ways to improve, but 20 knots, it is a bit hot for this kind of testing, I will take

it maybe Tuesday. but I confirms I thought: too flat, too much twisting, not its happy

ending loops, little depower, power, unpredictable and above all a sacred instability ...

all that the wing is not usable as it should. I am not sure to be able to make miracles,

hrib inside do not have enough pre-tension, the wing can thus ballooning / déballonner,

waving during the flight to facilitate the closures, ears wide gaps, and thickness to

provide sufficient rigidity to imagine using closures ears to rotate faster or more shock

(like a speed 3), and the wing which generates very little drag, which somewhat

complicates the thing as it speeds far in window edge, and if the brake by pulling the B

or C, the wing stops turning and no longer shocks because of too arrow. Briefly, there are

design problems that not always catch up with a modified clamping is not won, but I'll see

what I can do anyway, I'll let you juice.

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:02 am

funalex Tues., December 18 - 9:02 p.m.

News from the front ... of constant 3-5 knots, perfect for the setting of a new clamp. So

I went back again while clamping the track was good the other day, but it was not enough,

so I still redone. Purpose of the operation:. Wing archer and down the twisting, which

must result in a semblance of triple depower for a more playful kite and also healthiest I

RELEASED almost all flanges (-50cm to center!) ... with a different form of arch between

the lines ... I have less elongated B, C and even less ... and not at all the brakes. I

added a strap on side that prevents the wing drags too in the corner, and little bonus to

improve responsiveness, I connected the B4-B5 on the pulley of C instead of B ... hey it's

optional. I shortened the B few cm and lengthened the brakes to adjust the mix-test. So

the result is of course a wing that better resource at the end of loop, which is much

healthier because it goes too far window panel, and does not tend to blanket all the time,

and depower is more important and especially more direct, we can see the effect of the

triple depower. A follow tests in more wind to confirm these choices and settings, but

anyway, I could not do much better either, I fear ... Little video to see the new form

(only those accustomed to the view from below will form a difference)
funalexbridle diagram.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wohCjy ... e=youtu.be

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:09 am

funalex Tues, Dec. 18 - 11:55 p.m.

it is a 12m, and do not worry I will give the dimensions when I good esteem. it's a little early for the moment, and it is likely to be transposed to other sizes. (to confirm that the lengths of bridles are proportional to the root of the area, according to size) ... it will definitely not hard to change, you buy the line Dyneema decath to 110 kg, enough good, a loop each side of the right length, log out, you put the extension and you made ​​the larks head on the fuse, simply. no need to piss with the seam. by cons, I go to Val Thorens making snow ... so I know when I can resume testing ... I specify nevertheless, you will neither speed 4 or a 3 speed hands ... the fault of a structure which lacks rigidity, but you still will approach these behaviors.

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:10 am

funalex Fri, December 21, 2012 - 10:25 p.m.

why not ... you understand anyway ... to be perfect anyway would resume B and C, because they too are too twisted, but on a much flat wing, you can not remove any twisting. good personal, I really think it's too flat, it is gradually Archant their wings that Flysurfer have become better and better!

foilholio
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Re: Funalexed Pansh Aurora

Postby foilholio » Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:18 am

This thread discusses the mod

http://www.tubelesskite.net/t5287-boost ... ansh#59587

original file links

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1HZDs ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1HZDs ... sp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1HZDs ... sp=sharing
funalex bridle diagram 2.jpg


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