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The Monjet Ninox

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foilholio
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby foilholio » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:02 pm

If the closed cells are for structure why not place them more to the tips?

The closed cells arn't closed but open? Wow that is really crap :-( For the little extra work at the factory why not close them :-/ I guess they can be modified but most people won't bother and as such won't use it on water. The designer has kinda missed the boat saying it's for water as well and not designing it so...

Regis-de-giens
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Apr 25, 2016 1:09 pm

The designer should have standard neurones at least :D

Actually the 3 stuts are closed. Only the LE is open like the peak. Reason he told me is that it would have required significant added cloth hence weight while it may have less adding value regarding the structure and the L/D ratio. I believe it is true since it was the same reason why I also kept the LE open on my custom single skin ( if you want to get the cloth back to the extrados, on the S2 19m it required approx 40 cm deep cloth, which visually appeared to be a significant part of the intrados you want to remove...

Additionally maybe sewing exercise is also not obvious when you think to the interface strut/LE. In my case, starting from an existing kite and without sewing skills, is also why I gave up closing the LE. :worry:

Byan the designer manage to relaunch it from water provided that their is not too much waves. I believe it is easier than the peak but indeed not as sure as a standard double skin foil kite.

foilholio
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby foilholio » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:22 pm

Sorry I thought you meant the closed cells were open on the front. The whole LE is obviously open, maybe if it was closed it would be better but open I think water relaunch will still work. The kite just needs to catch the wind enough to engage the bridles. Maybe LE down with water in it could present a problem. Then you need to be able to rotate one tip up to drain the water sideways. Most foils don't seem to like doing this but nasa wings can. Maybe in the end closing the entire LE will be the best solution. I really can't see how it will add significant weight, must be between 3 and 5% extra cloth. Cloth would make up 70%-80% of the kite weight, so I would guess closing the LE is about 21 to 40 grams. Maybe he has tried. I thought just closing the LE on the peak would be a good solution for water relaunch with it. Maybe also with a closed LE battens wouldn't be necessary.

I am wondering in my head about other hybrid combinations, like only the rear third being single skin, or the center rear or the tips. I think it opens the possibility to create flapping when depowered, making a positive effect where the kite will sit further back in the window and drift better,and be more stable like with tails on kites. The peak already does this, inflatables like the cloud as well, the pyscho4 as well but in a different way. With the single skin on the rear it would also bring the CG forward. It could make for a very good surfing kite. Hmm I'll throw it on the back burner but if no one trys this I will butcher a kite my self :-) Your speed single skin has inspired me! Do you have a link to it?

Regis-de-giens
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:46 am

About my "spike" (contraction of speed + peak with french prononciation), you can read that if you can catch some french words: it was more work than I initially thought and still not 100 % happy with the result for now.
http://www.tubelesskite.net/t7239-spike ... ight=spike

Here is a link to the video of its first flight before briddle optimisation (still on going) :

<iframe src="//player.vimeo.com/video/118132000"; width="500" height="375" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe> <p><a href="http://vimeo.com/118132000">My "SPIKE 19m" - huge single skin kite with depower - 1st static flight - 2015</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user18171264">regis-de-giens</a>; on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

foilholio
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby foilholio » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:15 am

Thanks
phpBB [video]


I am thinking making the portion between C and Z single skin. I may start with the center, though I would like to try the tips alone as well. It should help balance the kite, make it sit back in the window depowered, be lighter, have a nicer camber curve in the single skin section, so more lift and lastly get rid of that dastardly TE seam on Flysurfers and Panshs .

Looking at your kite it's pity you didn't try leaving some sections inflated :-( Looking at it it probably needs more of the ribs left on and more bridles added. The peak has a lot of bridling and ribs in the front. Me I am hoping to avoid this by only focusing on the rear.

Monjet_Bryan
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby Monjet_Bryan » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:30 am

Hi everyone,

Cool to see this topic on kiteforum. My name is Bryan and I am the designer of this kite.
Keep in mind, we are still prototyping. The pictures you see online are without the valve on the closed cells.
The reason is, we test different valve types. We didn't close the whole LE for better low end performance and a quicker turning kite.
The Ninox is a powerfull fast kite wich easily stays in the air in just a few knots. It has the power and performance of a much bigger kite and packs very small.
I think it's ideal for snowkiting, hydrofoiling and landboarding.
We want to increase the very low wind sessions with this kite.

Best regards,

Bryan

foilholio
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby foilholio » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:37 am

Cool it's a bit confusing, I thought the cells looked open in the picture.

I doubt you will need full size valves for those single cells. Dont forget to add drains to each of them! Maybe a couple of punch hole size holes in each corner.

It looks a really cool concept, I hope it works and catches on. Did you try any other hybrid combinations? Do the closed cells help it hold shape a bit on slack lines?

kitexpert
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby kitexpert » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:13 am

I have made some experimental designs with single skins too. One possibility might be triangular closed cells, sidewalls of a cell are then a kind of same as full length full cell (or half cell) diagonal ribs are. Structurally triangular shape is reasonable and it is a bit lighter than square cell.

There is lot of design possibilities with cell counts, closed cells number and locations, variable cell widths and of course with the bridles.

Wingtips seem to be problematic in every single skin foil. Perhaps some battens there would help?

I wish good luck to Bryan and welcome to the forum :thumb:

foilholio
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby foilholio » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:43 am

Triangle cells combined with single skin that is interesting.

Battens and bridles are not friends. Why not close cell the entire tip.

Regis-de-giens
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: The Monjet Ninox

Postby Regis-de-giens » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:35 pm

Hello Bryan,
Great to hear from you since foilzone is out ...
You know I love your concept and I am thrilled to hear the first test with Hydrofoil. Congratulation for that.

In my Humble opinion, if your goal is improving the very low end actually possible with a hydrofoil, you will need to develop a larger size than 9 m2 (and even higher than 11 m2). Indeed, with my light weight and large foil wing, when I am at the "comportable" flying-zenith limit of my double skin kite (say 5-6 knots just to fix ideas), I need at least 12m2 to have fun. So for a 75 kg rider with a standard wing, even 11m seems a too little to my mind if you target 4-5 knots. I would bet for 14-15m2.

Any target day for the first 9m production ?


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