Converting a North 2011 5th line bar into pulley bar for Pansh Aurora2 19m

[Macisback]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to convert the North 5th element bar to a pulley bar,


As shown below, I have 2 North pulleys here, a 7m saftey line loop spliced on both ends and a 15mm wide (2,5mm thick) metal ring that can take a bit of a load (I would guess 250kg + but I could also use a Jaybar ring with breaking load 750kg)

1)On the pic below I show where I think about connecting the pulleys, directly at the leaderline loops
2)I cut the 7m line in half for the new pulley lines connect it to the front lines with the loops, pull them through the pulleys and create a loop knot at their end with shrinking pipe to fix it properly (Cant splice, too much effort - as it is a 3mm line I guess breaking load is fine)
3)Put the ring on the power line with a simple loop and connect the the two pulley lines with the loop knots to the ring
4)Put an extension line on the power line (or three extensions on top) to make up for the longer lines through the pulley lines


So I have a few questions:

- It is my understanding this setup works well (pulley lines connected to powerline above the trim)?
- How long would you cut the pulley lines and how high would you put the ring on the power line?
- Better a powerline extension or better 3 line extensions (2x front, 1x 5th)?
- Will the breaking load of the power line because of the ring knoted to it reduce too much or will the metal ring have to carry too much weight?

If I need a bigger ring, no issue. But if breaking load of the power line would reduce, I would need a thicker line I guess or get it cut and loop spliced twice where the ring is and get the ring connected to the to ends.

kitefly.de_12_north_red_safety_line_quad_control.jpg (100.11 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

vario-cleat-with-lineloop-and-pulley.jpg (11.25 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

87190 klein.jpg (36.23 KiB) Viewed 2275 times

[foilholio]

I would take your rear leaders and floats off and put the pullies right down near the bar ends. That way you shouldn't need to play with the front lines and you can connect the pulley lines where the trim rope and front line meet.

You adjust your pulley line lengths like you would your rear leaders. You'll need extra for the V in the pulley but with the bar in the lines should line up or the rears be a bit shorter than the fronts. You can always shorten them more later, lengthening will be messy.

[Macisback]

Hm, I dont really like the pulleys to close to the bar and am no fan of removing the floaters.
I hear what you say, but I would love to be able to have the pulleys a bit bit further away.

[Regis-de-giens]

On the pulley Bar I had on Aurora (no modification, it was the original pulley bat form Liquid Force), pulleys were close to the bar as describes Foilholio ;


I recommend you to do the same or put them as close to the bar as possible, just after the floater (or reduced floater would be better); I did the same for the one I did for the aurora of a friend, pulleys were then directly attached to the bar, no floaters; main reasons are:

- to get a full 2:1 effect you need to put the pulleys as far as possible from the front line (power line) connection ; otherwise the turbo 2:1 effect will be reduced when you sheet-out

- when relaunching from water, you may need to grab directly the pulley line with your hand (so higher than the pulley, on the kite side), because when rising backward, pressure between A and Z of the kite may revert, power line will get slack (it is an image for understanding) , then Pulley will turn the opposite direction you want ... and release the rear line while tensionning the front lines ( => no reverse relaunch ...that is what prevents to relocate the pulley bar principle directly into the speed system of the kite like I tried with Malabar principle)

- when landing the kite alone in the power zone, the stroke of the bar my not be enough, so you have to again grab the pulley by hand line while being already fully sheet-in ... difficult, you may need to use your elbows to lock the bar at full power, so even more difficult if the pulley is too far above the bar.

About the floaters : you can use larger diameter pulley line to save some buoyancy and/or add some patches of foam "everywhere you can" (pulleys, trim, pulley lines close to the front line connection, ect...); plastic pulleys like ronstan are much lighter and does not cost much.

Last point, on your drawing, I do not understand what your section "2" of the lines is for. I do not think you need it but maybe I do not see the point.

tip : if you add another spare connection knot at the connection of the pulley line / kite rear line, you can deactivate very easily the 2:1 system and revert to a normal 1:1 by disconnecting the pulley line from the front power line, and re-connect it on the rear line; this could be useful for long sessions if you deem the pressure is tiring for your arms, or at high end since you have enough agility to avoid 2:1 turbo system. The you will need to trim to recover the same depower or put this connection a bit higher toward the kite to directly get a trim effect (this needs test to identify the best location)

[foilholio]

My suggestion to just remove the current rear leaders and floats was because it's the easiest solution and you can change it back easy too. There is also the advantage you can grab the pulley line for relaunch like regis mentions. Maybe just replace the rear leaders and still use the floats? That sounds good If you don't want to use the bar for anything else go ahead and cut up the rear leaders and use them, but you are really going to want to learn some splices to make it nice. I would be more focused on removing the Y as it will reduce the kites performance. ALSO and important northbars don't have much travel for the fifth line, make sure it works on the ground or test it in really light wind. Both tips should fold with no tension.

[Macisback]

Ok! I understand!

Section 2 is the Frontlines (where they split into the Y from the powerline), maybe the painting is a bit confusing at first look.

I guess I will cut the floaters in half, put the pulleys directly there. If thats enough float, fine, otherwise I add the 2nd floater on the powerline above the trim. That should do the job and enable me to connect the pulleys above the trim and still be able to grab the pulley and use full 2:1

Foilhoolio, you think the Y will really kill that much Kiteperformance? I have a few spare North lines here with 25 meters, so I could lower the Y to a V directly above the trim.

Guess I will need an extensions on the 5th (easy as not a powered 5th), if I eliminate the high Y I guess i can adjust the line lenghtes of pulley line + front to powerline + V front line lengthes.

[foilholio]

You may or may not need to cut the floaters much it depends how much the trim rope extends above where the bar stops. You miss out on some 2:1 depowering if the pulleys go above the pulley line attachments on the frontline when the bar is out or/and trim depowered. It generally may not work well like that too. From memory the north front line joins straight to the trim rope at a pulley. If you want to keep the full floater you will most likely have to add an extension to the front lines and safety to attach the pulley line high or mess with them some other way.


Yes Y lines nuke the power on foil kites. I would use a low V considering you want this kite for light wind.

I suggest now.

Swap the lines out, use a small 20-40cm extension ( leave it adjustable with some excess) to attach the front lines and pulley lines so you can keep the full floaters. Extend the pulley lines to compensate for the front line extension. Add an extension to the fifth line or just adjust it. You may find the rear lines need to be shorter and the fifth line needs quite a bit of adjustment to work with the pansh.

[Macisback]

Sounds like good advise! Especially the adjustable extensions and settings.
I decided to learn how to splice, only way to do this in a decent way I guess!

I will ask my friend with an Aurora2 19 how he adjusted front/rear lines an the 5th.

How are they set on the Pansh Bar?

[foilholio]

I think when even at the bar the rears are like about 20cm shorter at the kite. fifth line always seems to need shortening. You just need to fly it and see where maximum depower (b goes slack or stops going slack) and stall are. Or just ride use the trimmer and if you run out adjust to get back some trimmer.

[Macisback]

Just got a message, Aurora2 19m has 4 lines same length. Not sure about the 5th.