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Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?) Update: Yes, it's an Elf

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Starsky
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Starsky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:45 pm

http://www.powerkiteshop.com/images/new ... stack1.jpg

Peter Lynn Phantom... One of the coolest graphics in the the history of kites. Straight outa scooby doo!

They were a decent kite too.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:51 pm

bigwave wrote:
Mossy 757 wrote:
socommk23 wrote: Is it me or are some companies just jumping on the band wagon with little thought to any of it?
That's business in general...Apple made a bagillion dollars a decade ago by selling an iPod that makes phone calls, now everyone and their brother make smartphones.

I think companies are gambling that people would rather stay "on brand" with their favorite kite company and try something new versus leave their brand to get on board with a more foil-kite specific company. In that sense, their foil kite doesn't need to be that good, just good enough that Slingshot customers never feel the need to test drive an Ozone or a Flysurfer.
Well, it seems when you get the right people to build and design your kite it can not only satisfy your customers but also can raise the bar so the so called leaders have to up their game. Just ask F-One
Personally i dont think either north or slingshot are raising the bar with their kites.
It nice to have more options...competition between brands. But im not holding my breath for these bring anything but their version of a foil kite. The LF elite made 0 impact. I dont think these will be any different.
Would be nice if they did bring something new to the game, but flysurfer/ozone/elf/fone OWN the market as far as im concerned.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby zerogee_ca » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:04 pm

socommk23 wrote:Plus peter lynn has a kite called the phantom. Is it me or are some companies just jumping on the band wagon with little thought to any of it?

First north with a gross city skyline design and named the same as a Pansh kite the Ace.
Now slingshot with aweful graphics and no original name.
Starsky wrote:http://www.powerkiteshop.com/images/new ... stack1.jpg

Peter Lynn Phantom... One of the coolest graphics in the the history of kites. Straight outa scooby doo!

They were a decent kite too.
The Phantom is ancient. But here's an even old Peter Lynn, the F-arc. There are guys still have fun on both these kites. I think someone almost broke 130kph in a buggy on a 9.5 in 2012. Wonder how well the F-arc would work on a foil these days?? :D

Here's Kris riding hardwater on a 12m Farc in 2012...

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Starsky » Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:13 pm

Rather try one of the med sized PL phantoms on a foil. They were liked well enough the company brought them back into production for a little while, sadly, I think they lost the cool graphic.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby live2play » Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:29 am

That deflation zipper on the back of the SS kite is looking very Ozone-ish

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby pndLA » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:08 pm

...Looking very Ozone-ish
That is what i also thought wehen i saw it...

I am Not sure if there are other brands using zippers for deflation like in the picture...
Last edited by pndLA on Fri Mar 03, 2017 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 8:41 pm

I actually think the kite is a copy of a copy of a copy of a depower foil kite :rollgrin:
Surely its too late to the game to be original?
Or is it?
:?:

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:12 pm

pndLA wrote:I am Not sure if there are other brands using zippers for deflation like in the picture...
Elf Joker 5, 6, 7 all have velcro flaps on the trailing edge, not zippers, which might be evidence that this isn't being designed by Elf. Not sure on the new Joker 8 prototypes, but the couple of shots I saw did not have zippers either.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Mar 05, 2017 7:50 pm

socommk23 wrote:Personally i dont think either north or slingshot are raising the bar with their kites.
It nice to have more options...competition between brands. But im not holding my breath for these bring anything but their version of a foil kite. The LF elite made 0 impact. I dont think these will be any different.
Would be nice if they did bring something new to the game, but flysurfer/ozone/elf/fone OWN the market as far as im concerned.
Think the same, haven't tried the slingshot, but the north I tried for sure does not rise any bar.

I also don't know anything about the slingshot, I hope they found somebody experienced constructing foil kites, otherwise it woundn't be even close to some bar. But I am sure discussion about where the blow out valve is, does not get you closer to the origin of the kite. Flysurfer uses velcro till 2004 than zipper than velcro again one or two.... blow out valve is not even a construction detail in my eyes it is just a choice you can do for any kite according to cloth, weight and other demands, but nothing really brand typical and not even something that can go to much wrong.

There are other construction details IMHO that are way, way more important and much more about origin and philosophy of the construction and designer... but you won't see them from the outside on a photo.

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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:27 pm

The bar is already high up... AR's are high, cell counts are high and prices are high :)

Every kite having near 7 AR looks very much same. Also cell counts have to be more or less same. about 50 and higher. If some brand would make a kite with 80 cells, it is hard to say how much better it was. Cleaner wing but also more weight and more line drag due to more complex bridle. It would cost even more, perhaps 4000€?

Deflation velcro/zipper is one of the least interesting details there is in a kite. Opposite is how designer combines cell count, inner structures and bridle spacing to a logical and clean result. Air intake locations also relate these parameters too, at some degree at least. Also to choose correct airfoil, morphing it in different parts of the wing and controlling the cell shape are essential design points. Then wingtip shape and canopy curve have to be decided, 2-D shape (plan view, profile alignment), line row locations by the chord, miniribs, bridle cascades etc. etc.

Usually people not knowing enough of kites do not understand how much airfoil of the kite defines it. They also don't know how big differences there is between different airfoils. Many times I have heard strange explanations how some minor detail of a kite is supposed to have improved kite or made it very different compared to other or earlier kites. It is nonsense: if there is some major difference in the kite behaviour, there is some real difference in the structure of the kite also.

Speed system is nowadays finished, using diablo-line is of course an option. Bridle tweaking has not much role in kite design, it is very limited how much can be achieved with it. Choice of fabric is a relevant question, but there is practical limitations. Of course every kite would be better if made from 20g/m2 superstrong fabric, but from a designer point of view it is not that interesting. If some miracle fabric can be used, fine. In early days I made some high wind kites from 80g/m2 fabric and they worked well.


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