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Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?) Update: Yes, it's an Elf

For all foil kite riders


Faxie
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Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Faxie » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:52 pm

socommk23 wrote:
Faxie wrote:Could be a similar story as the Diablo. Bring a big bag of money and 'make us a kite'
Lets hope its as good as the diablo then!
Let's hope it's not as expensive too!

socommk23
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Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:42 pm

Faxie wrote:
socommk23 wrote:
Faxie wrote:Could be a similar story as the Diablo. Bring a big bag of money and 'make us a kite'
Lets hope its as good as the diablo then!
Let's hope it's not as expensive too!
Wouldnt that be nice

kitexpert
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Posts: 503
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:00 pm

Faxie wrote:Bring a big bag of money and 'make us a kite'
Yes, why not? How about 57 cells, miniribs, D-flares and AR 8.5? And of course balanced and low drag bridle, not messy like in some race kites...It is called kite design 8)
Image

socommk23
Frequent Poster
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:00 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Faxie wrote:Bring a big bag of money and 'make us a kite'
Yes, why not? How about 57 cells, miniribs, D-flares and AR 8.5? And of course balanced and low drag bridle, not messy like in some race kites...It is called kite design 8)
Image
Only 57 cells? What about double trailing edge cells? ;)

Faxie
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 741
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:39 pm
Kiting since: 2011
Local Beach: Netherlands. Maasvlakte, Slufter, Scheveningen, Domburg, Rilland, Brouwersdam, Ouddorp, Binnenschelde, Vrouwenpolder, Oostvoorne, Rockanje, Grevelingen, Borssele.
Style: Freeride, freestyle, wave.
Gear: Switch Helium V1 18m Element V3 13m-7m V4 9m-5m Legacy V1 10m-14m Slingshot Fuel 2005
Switch MJComp V2 136x41.5 Firewire Hellrazor 6.1 timbertek Shinn Shinnster Nobile 555 125x38
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby Faxie » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:04 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Faxie wrote:Bring a big bag of money and 'make us a kite'
Yes, why not? How about 57 cells, miniribs, D-flares and AR 8.5? And of course balanced and low drag bridle, not messy like in some race kites...It is called kite design 8)
Image
Wish I had a big bag of money :cry:

kitexpert
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:41 pm

socommk23 wrote:Only 57 cells? What about double trailing edge cells? ;)
Well, miniribs are same as "double trailing edge cells". If you look carefully wiremesh picture you can see them :wink:

Surfplan is maxed at 58 cells and I almost always do my designs with odd cell count, so it is 57 cells. It seems it is plenty, cell shape is good and for sure with miniribs TE holds its shape very well. There cell count is (in FS style) 114 :o
Faxie wrote:Wish I had a big bag of money :cry:
Sigh.. Who wouldn't :( :) Seriously that kind of kite would need a lot of work too... But actually I was a bit surprised it doesn't look so unrealistic and I think I managed to design basics well enough. There is two different bridles in design, with two or three cascades for the secondary bridle.

Three cascades leading to two risers per side is extremely few for a kite with that cell count.

Airfoil I used is very much the same Ozone's R1V2 has, not 100% identical though. I am certain there is not a lot of room to mess there, the balance between performance and stability is very sensitive in a kite like that. If anything I would adjust airfoil to more stable direction.
Last edited by kitexpert on Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

grigorib
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 5/7/9/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/91cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

For sale: MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Coupe 6'
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby grigorib » Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:45 pm

plummet wrote:Of course they will be copycatting other designs. Every lei manufacturer that's stepped into the foil market would have done the same.
And why wouldn't you? Looks at whats successful currently and then try and make it better!
I think Slingshot rediscovered a way to rebrand other, smaller brands. The LP foil sold as Silencer, the Ghost Whisper is rumored not to be their own model either. Nothing wrong with knowing what people want, locating a proven solution and rebranding it adding to all the quality and support expectations.
And if it is the Elf which absolutely kicks in snowkiting it'll be a win-win for all

socommk23
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Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:46 am

kitexpert wrote:
socommk23 wrote:Only 57 cells? What about double trailing edge cells? ;)
Well, miniribs are same as "double trailing edge cells". If you look carefully wiremesh picture you can see them :wink:

Surfplan is maxed at 58 cells and I almost always do my designs with odd cell count, so it is 57 cells. It seems it is plenty, cell shape is good and for sure with miniribs TE holds its shape very well. There cell count is (in FS style) 114 :o
Faxie wrote:Wish I had a big bag of money :cry:
Sigh.. Who wouldn't :( :) Seriously that kind of kite would need a lot of work too... But actually I was a bit surprised it doesn't look so unrealistic and I think I managed to design basics well enough. There is two different bridles in design, with two or three cascades for the secondary bridle.

Three cascades leading to two risers per side is extremely few for a kite with that cell count.

Airfoil I used is very much the same Ozone's R1V2 has, not 100% identical though. I am certain there is not a lot of room to mess there, the balance between performance and stability is very sensitive in a kite like that. If anything I would adjust airfoil to more stable direction.
So what performance is expected of this kite?
When are you making it?
What would it cost?
If it is likily to be similar to an r1v2 is the effort worth it?

kitexpert
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Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby kitexpert » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:38 pm

socommk23 wrote: So what performance is expected of this kite?
When are you making it?
What would it cost?
If it is likily to be similar to an r1v2 is the effort worth it?
Very high performance of course. AR 8.5 is more than almost any kite has, so also wingspan is very big. There is not much room to improve the bridle and also canopy curve is relatively flat to maximize PA. Projected area is 87% of flat area, even projected AR is 6.7.

As a designer I consider R1v2 perhaps the best race kite there is. I have own experience of Chrono1's, Sonic Fr's and Joker 6. I preferred Joker, but my tests weren't simultaneous or very thorough.

Very possibly the kite I designed would be more effective than R1, but it is almost sure it would be more difficult to use. So the challenge is not so much performance but usability and stability. I did a long time ago (perhaps 2007) AR 6.5 kite, it was more efficient than Speeds but depower had to be limited because it wasn't stable enough. In good winds it was a fun kite.

That kind of race kite has over 500 parts, not including bridle and speedsystem. It means huge work (and even more with most interesting big sizes) and makes it a bit easier to understand high prices of Diablos and R1's. Even though they are made in the far east where work is cheap.

So to make that kind of kite complete is far beyond my resources. But if some kite company or kite enthusiastic wants to enter that scene with me why not, if interested send PM.

socommk23
Frequent Poster
Posts: 486
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:05 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Hill head
Favorite Beaches: Brean. Uphill. Pembrey. Hill head. Meon shore
Style: Keeping the kite dry....hopefully
Gear: F.one diablo 15, 11 and 8m . Pansh aurora2 15m. Pansh sprints and firsts and Adams and flux .
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Slingshot Foil Kite (is it really an Elf?)

Postby socommk23 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:25 pm

kitexpert wrote:
socommk23 wrote: So what performance is expected of this kite?
When are you making it?
What would it cost?
If it is likily to be similar to an r1v2 is the effort worth it?
Very high performance of course. AR 8.5 is more than almost any kite has, so also wingspan is very big. There is not much room to improve the bridle and also canopy curve is relatively flat to maximize PA. Projected area is 87% of flat area, even projected AR is 6.7.

As a designer I consider R1v2 perhaps the best race kite there is. I have own experience of Chrono1's, Sonic Fr's and Joker 6. I preferred Joker, but my tests weren't simultaneous or very thorough.

Very possibly the kite I designed would be more effective than R1, but it is almost sure it would be more difficult to use. So the challenge is not so much performance but usability and stability. I did a long time ago (perhaps 2007) AR 6.5 kite, it was more efficient than Speeds but depower had to be limited because it wasn't stable enough. In good winds it was a fun kite.

That kind of race kite has over 500 parts, not including bridle and speedsystem. It means huge work (and even more with most interesting big sizes) and makes it a bit easier to understand high prices of Diablos and R1's. Even though they are made in the far east where work is cheap.

So to make that kind of kite complete is far beyond my resources. But if some kite company or kite enthusiastic wants to enter that scene with me why not, if interested send PM.
In my experience high aspect ratio seems to be the holy grail. But from flying the kites, high aspect can mean they lack the punch of acceleration and need to work up their speed before they kick in as such. This is why i ended up with the diablo which had what i felt the others lacked.
Id love to be part of a team to develop such a kite, but lack any kite building knowledge. My experience goes as far as minor tuning to get a kite to fly as i like it to.
If anyone does help you make this reality, i will be watching with great interest.


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