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Flysurfer sonic Race

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borist
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Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby borist » Tue May 23, 2017 6:21 pm

No winglets? Hmmm :lol:
phpBB [video]

Mossy 757
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue May 23, 2017 7:29 pm

Image

joriws
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby joriws » Wed May 24, 2017 7:53 am

Flysurfer launched web site: https://flysurfer.com/project/sonic-race/

* 11-21m AR 7.75
* A,B and Z bridle only.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Horst Sergio » Wed May 24, 2017 2:43 pm

Tried it around 10 weeks ago and had a short look, before FS started its flight to foil cup in Mexico with it.

Just the 13 m² on 15 m lines for around half an hour. It is really an impressive piece of technology, showing what is possible. With all the good behavior of sonic 1 & 2 combined, but even an significant step forward in technology. Talking about weight, 3 level bridle and stability and performance. Tacking felt like being pult always hardly and directly vs. windward. And bar feeling is very nice and intuitive, think my first or second flying tack, with at this time unknown short lines, has already been successful. After 10 minutes I navigated to Benni Bölli to ask him if we just can put a price on it and I keep it :D but they needed it for Mexico.

On the other hand the price of the Flysurfer Sonic Race ended where Ozone R1 and Fone Diablo has already been and that's just too much for me, as a normal not racing kiter. If you calculate that all these kites with super light fabric also doesn't last as long as for example a already very light Sonic 2 will. You can count around the dopple price they will cost you per session. But if money doesn't matter or you have to win in races and you're sure to be good enough, that the kite makes the difference, go for it. The kite is for sure also stable enough also for advanced kiters, but if you're not a professional kiter it might be that you have more or the same fun on a even easier Speed Lotus or so.

Mossy 757
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed May 24, 2017 9:36 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Wed May 24, 2017 2:43 pm
Tried it around 10 weeks ago and had a short look, before FS started its flight to foil cup in Mexico with it.

Just the 13 m² on 15 m lines for around half an hour. It is really an impressive piece of technology, showing what is possible. With all the good behavior of sonic 1 & 2 combined, but even an significant step forward in technology. Talking about weight, 3 level bridle and stability and performance. Tacking felt like being pult always hardly and directly vs. windward. And bar feeling is very nice and intuitive, think my first or second flying tack, with at this time unknown short lines, has already been successful. After 10 minutes I navigated to Benni Bölli to ask him if we just can put a price on it and I keep it :D but they needed it for Mexico.

On the other hand the price of the Flysurfer Sonic Race ended where Ozone R1 and Fone Diablo has already been and that's just too much for me, as a normal not racing kiter. If you calculate that all these kites with super light fabric also doesn't last as long as for example a already very light Sonic 2 will. You can count around the dopple price they will cost you per session. But if money doesn't matter or you have to win in races and you're sure to be good enough, that the kite makes the difference, go for it. The kite is for sure also stable enough also for advanced kiters, but if you're not a professional kiter it might be that you have more or the same fun on a even easier Speed Lotus or so.
Glad to hear you enjoyed it, I'm starting to think I'm going to reboot my quiver with this kite for the second half of the race season if my back injuries subside in time to go racing.

The thing I love about Flysurfer is that if you don't want to play the ultralight race kite game, there's a really really really good option in the Sonic2: cheaper, more durable, and for 80% of the racers out there it's going to be every bit as competitive as any other kite.

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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby foilholio » Thu May 25, 2017 3:41 am

Interesting kite, it has a 3 level bridle setup so could use just 1 pulley, but instead uses 3!. From the website
But the new mixer is a perfect match for the 3-Level Bridle Design, and changes the ratio evenly from the middle of the kite down to the tips while braking / depowering. The system transfers power to the kite by means of three deflection pulleys – A1 with 8:1, B1 with 4:1 and B2 with 2:1 – creating a steady pathway that provides uncompromised maximum performance.
I guess that means it has different ratio mixers for different sections of the kite?

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu May 25, 2017 10:27 am

foilholio wrote:
Thu May 25, 2017 3:41 am
Interesting kite, it has a 3 level bridle setup so could use just 1 pulley, but instead uses 3!. From the website

I guess that means it has different ratio mixers for different sections of the kite?
I am not 100% sure as I just had a short look on the beach but from experience and what I remember it's constructed like this:
The middle "B" level is on the first 1:2 pulley (as flysurfer has also done it on the nearly 3 level bridle of the old speed 4 normal (not lotus))
The two extra pulleys on each side are 1:4 and 1:8 and are just connected to the tips to give them a clean support without gabs, which can cause wrinkles on the tips of kites with just a 1:2:4 mixer.

Also older Flysurfer kites as the speed 2 and psycho 3 had extra levels on the tips to have less wrinkles but they used so called ring lines, so a small steel ring on the connection point that worked like a pulley but had the problem that the wear and shortening of the ring line was pretty fast. So not totally new but a new way to solve an old problem. And this 1:8 point is not just moving alone but spreads the forces via the inner structure of the kite into the tips. I think that's what they want to say :D

If you look at the pictures the canopy looks really smooth everywhere and especially also on the tips where most foil kites don't.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu May 25, 2017 10:47 am

After seeing that a 3 level bridle is possible, I asked my self if future race kites could be 6 liners (flying lines) as the libre radical2 is.

By the way has anybody a picture of the whole mixer of the radical2, as I am thinking to adept its 2 trimmer system to my ozone chrono and want to see how they solved it?

The disadvantage of a 6 liner 3 level bridle kite is for sure the two extra lines but as they're getting always shorter and can be a bit thinner than 4 lines the extra drag shouldn't be a no go.

The advantages would be that you can bring the mixer down to the bar where you can combine it with a 2 trimmer system that allows you to actively change and increase camber depending on wind situation or course as the extra pulleys on the fone Diablo do when totally sheeted in. Another advantage is absolutely no mixer pulleys in the bridle similar as on the old FS extacy or rookie. Another advantage could be a good B line stall safety.

Not sure if worth to use, but maybe worth to try.

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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu May 25, 2017 3:37 pm

I think the trick now with race kites if figuring out how to get them into a perfect trim "mode" for both upwind and downwind performance. When you setup a kite to kick ass downwind, you do a lot of stuff to it that makes it suck upwind - and vice versa.

This is the problem with the last generation of race kites like the Elf Jokers and original Sonic 1...they're really goddamn fast upwind but absolute pigs downwind because you need a totally different shape to be fast off the wind. Watch the HFPT Mauritius when Olly Bridge was still on Jokers...he has to sail a LOT higher downwind than Nico and Johnny do on their R1V2's but was almost always one of the first guys to the windward mark. It really sucks to give away a race on the final downwind leg because you're on the wrong gear.

I think that's what FS is focusing on here...how do we create an ideal shape in 2 very different modes of trim where the kite will easily transition between those modes while remaining stable and controllable. I think a lot of that is using the right weight/stiffness materials as well, some kites have material that seems to hold onto wrinkles more, so while they're nice and stiff and crispy, they're also not the smoothest kites in the sky when fully inflated and I think we're getting to the point where stuff like that matters.

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Re: Flysurfer sonic Race

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu May 25, 2017 4:06 pm

They have the user manual online, shows some cool stuff on the kite in better detail, especially the 3 pulley mixer.

https://flysurfer.com/files/dlm_uploads ... 017-04.pdf


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