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First Foil

For all foil kite riders


windrider1
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Re: First Foil

Postby windrider1 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:17 am

Im assuming you bought a pansh , well You cant comapre a knockoff to a properly manufactured kite. Your experience of endless issues shows exactly why its not worth the trouble .Youre better off buying a used reputable brand. Ive tried the pansh kites and they had problems and were sent back to pansh . If I wasn't an experienced kiter I would think the behavior of the faulty kites was normal. ex kite collapsing when depowered and so forth. Id go on to say that foil kites are awesome especially the new race kites. If you have been flying kites as long as I have which is over 12 years you will know this. Foil kites requires some finesse to fly you cant ham fist a foil kite. It needs to breathe so either you depower the kite a little bit or learn to push the bar out on the upstroke. Big mistake I see a lot of guys doing who are new to foil kites in low wind is trimming the kite for max power which is the opposite of what you supposed to do which is to depower the kite a little bit to prevent stalling. . To the guy wondering what size to get I say go with the 18m speed .You can start in 8 knts and probally go up to 16+ knts comfortably and best of all a foil kite will stay up in the sky in 5 knts without any problems.

RagingGrandpa wrote:
Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:17 pm
For water use with a TT, I'd recommend setting your expectations low.

I bought a 15m foil this past spring (the "Chinese Speed3 Lotus") because I was comfortable with foilkites from snowkiting, and wanted 10kt wind capability on water with a TT. Rode LEI's on water up to that point, biggest in my quiver was 11m- not fun below 15kt.

The 15m high-aspect foil doesn't have much low-speed pull. I know from using it in the snow that it behaves better when going faster, but I'm just not able to get into its powerful speed range in light chop on water in just 10kt of wind. Downloop waterstarts are easy and effective, but I find trouble keeping the speed. Stroking / sineing has a very limited benefit, unlike an LEI. Usually hotlaunch unassisted. Tethered launch seems impractical- it collapses and recovers in unsmooth ways when a wingtip rests on the ground. Water drift launch seems inconceivable- choices are unwind the lines while holding the kite (leads to bridle mess), vs inflate and release the kite and unwind the lines as the kite drifts away (risk of launch with lines not ready). Evidently people make it work though; I'm just here reporting that it's trivial with my LEI's, and very much not with the foil.

I'm kinda down on it for water use now, after a few sudden unexpected bowties from wind shifts. Now whenever I think of that kite I just envision the slog of being far from shore and having it suddenly collapse. Mine water relaunches pretty reliably actually, but often it relaunches with a bridle tangle that takes a few minutes and good luck to shake out. If there's a bowtie, you're probably swimming in.

Hydrofoiling with these things seems state-of-the-art regarding covering distance upwind. Spooky stuff, heading 10mi away from your launch in marginal-relaunch winds with equipment that often turns into a mess if it hits the water. Makes great video though.

So, I shelled out for another big LEI. Found that I like using 17m FatLady or 14.5 Flite on water much more than the 15m foil. Keeping it for snow use.

me: 1 season TT rider 139x42; 2 seasons snowkiting; 70kg; Michigan; go upwind easily; won't impress anyone

Vantage
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Re: First Foil

Postby Vantage » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:09 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:49 am
The advantage of the 15 is when the wind picks up, you won't want to put it down, but the 18 and especially the 21 will get a bit hairy. Add to how bloody slow they are, and you'll not enjoy them as much as a 15.

I think the Contra and the Speed5 15 will be comparable, so if you're looking for more power you'll have to go bigger. Demo if you can.
Definitely looking for more power.

Interesting point about the top of the wind range I could hold down on the 18m. The important thing would be the overlap with my 14m LEI so you don't end up with a gap with no kite although I think they are so close it wouldn't be an issue.

If I could get up to 16+ knots on the 18m as Windrider1 reckons then I think that's probably the one to go for.

cheers again.

joriws
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Re: First Foil

Postby joriws » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:39 am

I would not go for Ozone foilkites based on what I read here on Kireforum. They are not properly built (water exhaust, maintenance and 'being a sponge'). If you occasionally need drift launch it can be done for sure with Flysurfer foils. Elf/North/Diablo not seen any evidence of drift launching.

About size of 15/18. I am 30lbs heavier than you and mainly go with twintip although I have a plowing machine (hydrofoil). For me 15m foilkites have been optimum and I could easily outperform 17m lei kites. So for freeriding with twintip I would go for 15m Flysurfer. My selection was Sonic2, I cannot tell about Speed5 because I haven't ridden it. I've had Speed3 21dlx, Speed3 15dlx, speed4 15lotus and sonic-fr (v1) 15m prior Sonic2 15m. This week I demoed Sonic2 18m which gave me 5.3 xensr-meter jumps while others watched from surface.

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Kamikuza
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Re: First Foil

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:48 am

At our weight? 18m and 16 knots will be when the boosting really starts. 20 knots will be very well-powered on the water and self-landing by back stalling will be . . . entertaining for those watching.

So you could skip the 14m and go straight to a 10 or 11.

I should add I've gone off big kites and monster twin tips; I'd rather ride foil board and small kite till about 15 knots. Small TT and big foil is a bit of a chore, especially in chop when you keep losing board speed and apparent wind.

early bird2
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Re: First Foil

Postby early bird2 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:52 pm

I'm 214 and just sold my Chrono V2 15 meters , too small and heavy . Chrono V2 need to be UL in the big sizes at least . So I would go 18 .I ride a sector 60 for light wind and currently learning H foil.
Foil's kites are not difficult to ride and learn unless you go for a race one which could be a little more difficult if your wind is not laminar .
You should be able to demo first .For twin tips only I would also demo a 19 lei .
I thought of drifting the Chrono when I bought it but understood I could not : Weeds.....dirty water ....
You also need a large and empty beach for that big a foil kite , it takes room . Trees are a problem and any little branches will have a big tendency to nest in the bridles ....
Also big foils are quite deceiving for a twin tips , you won't get the spike to get on a plane like the one of an Lei , (no race type of course) . Foils need speed to be efficient .
Whatever you decide , I would first buy or borrow a small practice foil kite and get used to it , then a large size one won't bother you , it will only be WAYYYYY SLOWER ..... :thumb:

Vantage
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Re: First Foil

Postby Vantage » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:43 am

Thanks again for the input gents, appreciated.

I'm going to go for the 18m Speed 5 if for no other reason than I want it to be better than the Contra, not just equivalent. The cost of these is high so why spend that much on an equivalent (equivalent-ish wind range wise, not in terms of all of the other benefits of a foil). Most of my riding has been on the Contra so I'm used to slow with high bar pressure and I can't see the Speed 5 being any worse.

cheers,

early bird2
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Re: First Foil

Postby early bird2 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:02 am

Welcome to the Foil's kites world !

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Nem0
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Re: First Foil

Postby Nem0 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:54 pm

Enjoy your 18m Speed5! I loved riding and flying it!!! :)


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