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FS Speed 6

For all foil kite riders


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pmaggie
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Re: FS Speed 6

Postby pmaggie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am

My experience till now with the 21 is that also the Speeds when it comes to very gusty/difficult winds is not the best deal you can think of. Also, relaunch is a complex measure: 50% is for shure experience and skill but the other 50% is all about luck, especially in really marginal conditions. If you get a real lull (that on our lake means zero wind for 1 or 2 minutes), the way the kite will fall down is only a matter of luck. If it turns on itself while falling, it doesn't matter how experienced is the kiter, you're going to swim. Generally speaking about foils, I think the truth is written in the Ozone website about the Chrono: "The Chrono V2 is a closed-cell foil and is water re-launchable, but we recommend that you keep it flying and out of the water if possible!"
Anyone please tested head to head the Chrono and the Sonic 2? FS declare a far larger wind range about the Sonic in comparison with the Chrono. E.g., Chrono 13 about 8 to 13/14 ideal wind range. FS Sonic 2 13 mts. FS declare 8-27. It's a huge difference in the upper range...

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Horst Sergio
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Re: FS Speed 6

Postby Horst Sergio » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:59 am

Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 am
... Combine the Sonic and Sonic Race into ONE line as the Sonic Race. Too much confusion/overlap between the Speeds and Sonics in my opinion.
I think Yes and No:
The sonic2 and its development steps have been the more or less competitive race kite in 2016, but it is now no more competitive in serious racing so now by name downgraded to their more durable "freerace" kite which fits perfectly in my eyes. As there are still some guys who want to win real races against Ozone R1 and Enata, FS introduced the SonicRace with much less respect to normal users demands, but as much full race performance as possible but weaker thinner fabrics for example. I think the few but for FS marketing important racers wouldn't be happy if they would have to fly a mixture of Sonic2 and Sonic Race and the normal ambitious riders as me also wouldn't be happy if they would have to fly something that didn't last as long as a Sonic2 does, when bringing it closer to Sonic Race or wouldn't be happy if they had to fly something of category Speed 5.

But I also see a huge gab at the bottom end between viron and Sp5. Speed 6 could be closer to Speed 4 lotus or deluxe/normal to be easier for advanced beginners. And if you want you may also name it Psycho. FS has already produced enough confusion with those two independent Speed 4 lines where the normal version would have been much more successful when they would have named what it was a "Pulse3". But I am not sure if there is enough room for FS to have 4 parallel normal soft kite lines so a Pulse3 or Psycho5 or how you want to name it. As long as they want to keep their 2 LEI lines and single skin "Peak" and total beginner "viron"
Adventure Logs wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:24 am
...BUT keep the Flysurfer warranty(It pisses me off there's no warranty on the Sonics)....
Don't know if this helps you / where you live. A friend with the shop www.kitejunkie.com in Germany may offer the same freerepair as flysurfer does but also for the sonic2 if you want. But I understand the idea of FS as they want to be able to construct the sonics lighter, as they are made for experienced rider, who don't drop their kites hard. For all others there is still the stronger, but heavier construction of Sp5 with free repair you may drop as often and as hard you want. And as far I know, is there any other foil kite manufacturer as for example Ozone that gives you a freerepair on any of their kites? Don't think so.

---
pmaggie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am
My experience till now with the 21 is that also the Speeds when it comes to very gusty/difficult winds is not the best deal you can think of. Also, relaunch is a complex measure: 50% is for shure experience and skill but the other 50% is all about luck, especially in really marginal conditions. If you get a real lull (that on our lake means zero wind for 1 or 2 minutes), the way the kite will fall down is only a matter of luck. If it turns on itself while falling, it doesn't matter how experienced is the kiter, you're going to swim.
Sorry, but disagree:
IMHO its 95% about experience in less than 5% you may call it bad luck and have to relaunch that way,if hopefully learned before:
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2394369&p=993428#p993428

But also in these cases it is most riders fault as he missed to oversheet the kite in a lul or during a missed maneuver. But also have to say the lower the AR and the smaller the kite, the easier relaunch will be, so Speed 5 21 will not be the easiest for sure.
pmaggie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am
Generally speaking about foils, I think the truth is written in the Ozone website about the Chrono: "The Chrono V2 is a closed-cell foil and is water re-launchable, but we recommend that you keep it flying and out of the water if possible!"
About the chrono 1 and 2 ozone is right to recommend to keep it away from the water :wink: :lol: . No, to be serious also the Chronos relaunch well but much better, when drainage is improved that way
viewtopic.php?f=197&t=2396325&p=983781#p983781
pmaggie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am
Anyone please tested head to head the Chrono and the Sonic 2? FS declare a far larger wind range about the Sonic in comparison with the Chrono. E.g., Chrono 13 about 8 to 13/14 ideal wind range. FS Sonic 2 13 mts. FS declare 8-27. It's a huge difference in the upper range...
If you talking about Chrono V2 it is much closer to Speed 5 than Sonic and you can never compare windranges from different manufactureres even the declared numbers for different models are difficult to compare, it is all about how much safety is in the numbers. Heard from Peter Müller he has used Sonic 9m² in over 40 knts of wind and seen him well under 10 knts both on the hydrofoil so range can be insane, but for safety reasons of normal riders you will never read this on their homepages. Both sonics will for sure have wider range than Chrono V1 and in any case of Chrono V2.

But both also good kites, still love my Chrono V1 15 m² if I have to pull heavy old wood, but we are talking about FS and Speed, don't we. :wink:
Kitejunkie-Chrono-Kiteski.jpg

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Kamikuza
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Re: FS Speed 6

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:03 pm

pmaggie wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:26 am
My experience till now with the 21 is that also the Speeds when it comes to very gusty/difficult winds is not the best deal you can think of.
Gusty winds are not a foil's forte, to put it mildly. Lulls suck, but I'd prefer those to punchy gusts.

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pmaggie
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Re: FS Speed 6

Postby pmaggie » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:04 pm

Here on our lake, when I speak about "lulls" I mean that for some minutes there's no more wind and for "no more" I mean zero, water as glass. In these conditions also the most experienced foil users (there are at least two guys who are really expert) can't keep their kites in the air. So relaunch is important, since normally the wind is back and if you can relaunch you can also go home, if not you're going to swim! The problem is that sometimes the lulls come so quickly that you can't control the way the kite is falling, there's no front or back lines pull that is gonna save you from the disaster. If the kite fall in a good position, no problem, if it spins you're f#@]ed.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: FS Speed 6

Postby Horst Sergio » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:33 pm

@pmaggie:
Don't be afraid, you're not alone :wink:

Behind every corner in nearly every lake around the whole planet you wont find "soma bay winds" but often lulls of zero wind, where you will have to swim for a while.

But you can be prepared for this situation. If you listen well with your finger tips you will feel the moment, when the bar pressure becomes soft. Especially an 21 m² will give you a second or more before collapse. In this moment you have to learn to hardly over sheet, as explained here in another context, but it works the same: (starts from 1:23)
https://vimeo.com/142364282

If you're over sheeting fast and hard you will be able to backstall the kite in any wind twist or zero wind lull and bring it down to the surface without twist.
Try to explain this technique to every foilkiter I meet, as so important for many issues also for controlled normal landing behind trees and so on.

Never release an mm of tension in this moment but fast and constantly over sheet, normally the hand of the downside wingtip will have to strike into its line (so the opposite than on the picture) as the downside wingtips needs more over sheeting or will collapse first.

Image

Will work with any foilkite also a Speed 6. But better talk in the other topic about relaunch questions.

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pmaggie
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Posts: 654
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:54 am
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Local Beach: Gera Lario, Como Lake, Italy
Favorite Beaches: Lo Stagnone (Marsala, Sicily - Italy) - Soma Bay (Egipt) - Cabarete (Dom Rep.) - Kite beach (Maui)
Style: Freeride
Gear: Core Riot XR4 11, Core Riot XR 7, Core Riot XR2 15, Shinn Bronq 136x42, Nobile Flying Carpet
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Location: Como Lake - Italy

Re: FS Speed 6

Postby pmaggie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:49 am

Thank you very much for the input Sergio! The only problem is that I can't see the video, the link opens a page in Vimeo who invites me to get the pro version. I'd really like to see that video, is it please also on youtube?

Thanks a lot!

Paolo

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pmaggie
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Favorite Beaches: Lo Stagnone (Marsala, Sicily - Italy) - Soma Bay (Egipt) - Cabarete (Dom Rep.) - Kite beach (Maui)
Style: Freeride
Gear: Core Riot XR4 11, Core Riot XR 7, Core Riot XR2 15, Shinn Bronq 136x42, Nobile Flying Carpet
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Location: Como Lake - Italy

Re: FS Speed 6

Postby pmaggie » Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:55 am

Sorry, found, thank you. Do I please have to oversheet with both the floaters when I feel it's falling down?

Thanks again

Paolo


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