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Pulsion 18m

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jakemoore
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby jakemoore » Fri Jun 01, 2018 5:03 am

kitexpert wrote:FS's new system which alters camber
Not new. Hidden under our noses for years. Ahead of their time.

aTi
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby aTi » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:14 am

Nem0 wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:27 pm
aTi wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 4:52 pm
Since you are comparing internal construction of pulsion vs soul: did someone already had the opportunity to fly both kites? I would be curious to hear about that since both kites seems to be aimed at a pretty similar audience (people looking for a more "mid" aspect ratio kite, with less perf but more stability, relaunch and ease of use).
Beginning at 07.07. I can start testing 18m pulsion and 12m Soul on the water! 3 weeks ago I tested 18m Soul.
I'm curious what will be the differences! ;-)
and I will gladly read you when you get the chance to test those kites! :jump:
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:56 pm
Back to Pulsion. A lot of people are discovering medium AR kite and promotting the first one they try like soul or hyperlink from major companies. Kitech frs is also good , not as expznsive as Ozone or FS, and the closest to LEI. Each has pro and cons. Pansh a15 (older) is a bit below these others but does a more than suitable job on HF and snow.

About Soul vs Pulsion I would conclude from my analysis and current temporary feedbacksincluding one kite teacher on foimkites: Soul is watertight longer when laid a long time in the water. Pulsion better in very low wind (loop boost and stays in the air in lightest breeze).
that might be a first difference: due to lighter (hence less "water repellent") fabric on the pulsion?

Regis-de-giens
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Exact and confirmed from a non affiliated tester feedback.

kitexpert
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby kitexpert » Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:25 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:56 pm
Kitexpert please ... read my message again and carrefuly. You are replying ot of topic of my arguments. Nobody said that panels are flat, obviously. We speak of setting the camber (in the range of 4-5 cm it is enough on a kite) and you say it will impact a lot more panel design at wingspan . Not at all , it is evident (while arc could but totally out of topic)
Fabric is flat, it is 2-D object. You can take any panel out of kite and lay it on the table, it is flat. Shapes of the panels vary considerably with canopy curve and camber of the airfoil.

Apparently you still don't understand how different cambered airfoils (ribs) affect on panel shapes. For example compared to bad sewing errors this kind of "4-5cm setting of camber" produces larger deviations - on every cell. It is true errors are evenly distributed and bulging hides them, but it is just as big as I told.

There is only one true panel shape for certain camber and canopy curve, anything else is tweaking and produces shape errors. If camber tweaking goes too far there will be creases etc. which of course add considerably drag.
Regis-de-giens wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 10:56 pm
There is NOT A SINGLE HOLE at the TE of the Pulsion. you are mixing kites. And it is obvious that a hole in the middle of the chord is a weaker point.
Nem0's post show and tell there is four holes at the TE of the rib. Of course no one thinks there is holes in kite itself :) Holes (vents) in the ribs are not a problem when correctly placed. There is room for 74 more vents in Pulsion 18m, but more could be saved by ditching that weird center air intake, one cell and some bridle line.

Not very big improvements, but why not to do them?

Regis-de-giens
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 02, 2018 2:39 am

Nem0 wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:58 am
4 wholes between the cells for air circulation at the trailingedge.
Ok I see. My 12m and 15m have none : I have a grid mesh instead. Maybe an evolution like the 2x double velcro purge at the TE. Maybe a 18m specificity I do not know.
Anyway this remains a stressless zone compared to vents in the midde of the chord (of the inter-cell rib of course).

Unitary panels are flat like on every kites , we are in line. I was speaking of panels once sewed , I do not know how to name this otherway. All FS kites , like pulsion and others , have a settable camber for more than 15 years even if panel are originally designed for 1 camber. 4-5 cm spread along the chord (and not cumulated to the wing) is really acceptable (and useful to adapt wind condition around sweet spot). For example you can extend high-end if you have no smaller kite with you on the spot or even improve agility of the Pulsion for waves if you are not on high end.

For newbies : It is not necessary to change it if you are reluctant to foilkite setting. Like LEI their "fabric" setting should be sweet spot. It is an option that experts can play with (like change location of front line attachement on a LEI that almost nobody changes) but kite is easy and adapted to use it out of the bag during years.

kitexpert
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby kitexpert » Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:50 pm

Image

This is more how it should look like 8)

Now there is reasonable odd cell count of 37, balanced locations for air intakes and quite decent bridle for a kite with that high cell count and bridles on every rib. As an option there is miniribs which of course add weight but make TE less bulging and more aerodynamic.

Area of this kite is 18m2, wingspan 9.9m, PA 15.2m2 (84%) and AR is 5.45. Cell is less than 8mm wider than if it had 38 cells, so in practice this difference is insignificant.

This one would be lighter in weight and it would have considerably less drag than original Pulsion kite. Feel free at ConceptAir to use these improvements in next versions of your kites :)

Regis-de-giens
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:14 am

I can't sleep because I maybe have identified a way to better optimize the 18m in marginal wind :jump: : extending further my already long lines :roll: .

Indeed I was probably disturbed because it worked well in same conditions with the same bar and lines on the 15m, and 30m is already SO long :!: ... and normally you get more power with a bigger kite on the same lines....

But no , maybe not... sorry for the long development to come, only for marginal wind lovers please :wink:

I was not understanding why I obtained less power using 1 or 2 loops rather than no loop on the 18m :nono: . All my other kites deliver more power at waterstart with 1 or 2 loops ! By thinking again and again to this marginal wind tentative (on the video), I realized that in such low wind and with the 3 extra meters span of the pulsion 18m, the kite becomes so slow that to complete a 360 loop, it required more room than half of the wind window available with 30m lines, so it ends up not exactly in full window when getting back toward the zenith after 360 degree . THIS removes a lot of power, whereas the 15m is turning shorter so it was able to terminate the loop in the middle of the wind window (at full power). BTW this is another reason why a wide race kite is not the optimum IMO.

... so next time lets try 35m or 40m (if I can find a suitable beach in my narrow beaches ...) and it should put the 18m back in the middle of the window for the catapult effect. :thumb:

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:23 am

Hi
I decided to swap to a Pulsion 15m which provides enough pull for my 60kg . 18m2 is a gain in lowend if you weight more than 75 kg IMO.

My 18m pulsion for sale here : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2399945&p=1019694#p1019694

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:31 am

Here is a video of static flight in marginal wind ; look at the end of the video, I like the kind of "revo" style close to the ground:

phpBB [video]

foilholio
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Re: Pulsion 18m

Postby foilholio » Sat Jul 07, 2018 4:51 am

It has very good light wind behaviour. It is similar to the A15.

Regis could you measure the widest point on the airfoil in the center cell. I will measure the A15-18m. It would be interesting to compare. Maybe throw in cord length as well to calculate airfoil %.


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