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Chrono V1 tip tucking

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direnc
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Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby direnc » Tue May 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Hi,

A friend has a Chrono V1 that keeps tucking its both tips very often. Did a long mixer test and extended B by 2cm, C by 4cm and K by 4cm according to the test, but it still tucks tips just as often. What would be the proper way to treat this ?

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby Horst Sergio » Tue May 22, 2018 5:47 pm

Hi direnc,
sorry but, if you realy did what you said, it is the same effect as elongating B and C by about 0,5 and 1 cm (and pulling the trimmer by 4 cm)
and this will cause even more tip tuck as before.

To reduce tip tuck you have to reduce camber on the tips to have more stable tips, check last picture of the gif on the end of http://www.lecca-lecca.com/#layer_5
lecca-lecca has the best instruction gift for this subject.

This means:
- on a rib with A B C Z (or K in the ozone wording) you have to shorten B and C, not elongate (or better and easier elongate just A)
- just on the last rib with just B C K you have just to shorten C (or better just elongate the single B 12)

Unfortunately on all Ozone kites you have to deinstall a big part of the bridle to reach and open the single connection points.
Then the easiest way is:

Install effectively about 1 cm short, small pigtails (like Flysurfer uses) on the connection points:

B12, A11, A10, A9, A8, A7 (or just elongate AR2)
see https://ozonekites.com/images/uploads/p ... -Check.pdf


And your tip tuck will be gone.

I already prepared those pigtails for my chrono, but don't need it as it has still no relevant tip tuck, even not on short flying lines.
Important to keep your trimm well for long and not to get tip tuck and backstall is to always wind up your bridle completely on the bar, till close to 1 m to the tip. Doing this your kite will keep perfect trimm for 500 hours and more like mine, if you do it the way as shown in the ozone instructions, throughing the bridle into the kite ... your trimm will be messed up in short time.

direnc
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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby direnc » Tue May 22, 2018 6:34 pm

Hi Horst,

Thanks for your quick and prompt response. So, if I got you right, tip tucking is not possible to solve at mixer level?
Elongating AR2 seems to be the easier way. Since it's not my own kite, I'd prefer to get it flying reasonably well with the least effort possible.
How many centimeters do you suggest I elongate to begin with ?
BTW, should I keep the changes to the mixer, or undo them? I did the long mixer test on my own Chrono V1 15, and it flew much better, without any bad traits. This one not so much...

Thanks a lot!

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby foilholio » Wed May 23, 2018 6:41 am

Lengthening individual A bridles is by far the wrong way to do this, you will limit your depower doing that.

The easiest and quickest way to fix this is add an extension to your Zmain or as lovely Ozone calls it KR1. Just add in a loop with knot on one end at the rear line attachment end. You will need to disassemble reassemble that rear line attachment mixer area, about 30seconds each, once you have the loop in you can just use that to adjust things. Try start with 8-10cm long and work down from there. It will become more unstable the shorter you make it.

If you want to go the route of individually altering the bridles, add progressively tapered extensions on Z with the longest at the tip, shortest towards the center.

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby evan » Wed May 23, 2018 8:51 am

Loosening the main Z-bridle line is always the first step in solving tip tucking foil kites. After that level the speed system, attach it to a fixed point when level and stretch each individual bridle lines, starting with z, c rows and tip lines as they bare the least load and shrink the most.

You need to let the tips breathe to solve collapsing in the bridle trim, while your intuition tells you the opposite as you need to stall the kite to open the tips when flying.

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andrzejwodejszo
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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby andrzejwodejszo » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:42 am

does the loosening of the Z line really work in this case? can anyone confirm it to me? how many cm to loose the links first? Will not I lose control?

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby evan » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:55 am

I say start with 4cm and see if that solves anything, no problem when flying with the brakes too loose. At some point you will gat weird stall behaviour because it stalls at C with a loss of low-end power, just shorten the brakes a bit then. It was night and day on my chrono v1's with a looser brake, remember that the brake bridle shortens the most over time so even when the speed system is level the brakes will be already too short.

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby direnc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:16 pm

Yes, indeed extending Z by 3 more centimeters solved the tip tuck issue (on top of the 4cm done with the long mixer test), and the kite flew perfectly until one day it exploded mid air and split into three pieces:( Wind was about 17 knots and my friend was submerged in the water after a kiteloop gone bad, and the kite could not handle the stress...

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby foilholio » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:30 pm

The other thing I will add is you can often ( not always) also loosen or extend C a bit ( as long as you don't change B) to improve stability and power. This is counter to what is often said particularly for things like Flysurfers, where it is always said to shorten C and with it B automatically to improve stability. I'll explain it as the thing with kites that increase camber, B is usually engaged quite a while before C and Z. The advantage of B having engagement like this is it alters camber quite well to increase stability while not powering too much of the wing. It gives you good control in the depower range. C gives similar stability increase but engages more of the wing and so power, which can actually make it harder to control. By extending C we then allow B more engagement time before C or Z. Then there is the power benefit that a loosening C can increase camber, giving more power and lowering stall. That's one little trick to getting the tune just right.
direnc wrote:
Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:16 pm
until one day it exploded mid air and split into three pieces:( Wind was about 17 knots and my friend was submerged in the water after a kiteloop gone bad, and the kite could not handle the stress...
This is one reason why LCLs.

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Re: Chrono V1 tip tucking

Postby downunder » Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:37 pm

Let him get the Serial Number etc and send to Ozone or post here.
I have R1 and would hate to see that happening. As LE exploded on my Boost1 which was only used 20 times or so over few seasons. So yeah, big, BIG, hustle doing mixers etc for that to happen :(
Put it this way, if that was a paraglider, he would lost his life and a huge investigation would happen...Ozone makes paragliders so should be noted.


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