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Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

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kitexpert
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby kitexpert » Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:37 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:16 am
I am here to exchange ideas and help you should try the same.
Your goal is appreciable, but I don't think it will happen if me or some others are not constantly guiding and correcting you.

My intention wasn't to ridicule your idea of this post, but I think my drawing is about the same level with it. Think now, foilholio:

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to design kite with more canopy curve than to try to distort some existing kite to have more curvature? After tweaking every panel in kite is wrong shaped for the new curvature.

How about other line rows? Did you think to leave them like they were (what a mess) or should there be three more cross lines?

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby foilholio » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:36 pm

Seriously are you disabled or something?

I start a thread with an idea to simply alter kites bridle so to gain some topend and turn when say you don't have another kite available, like travel. You now come back with this
kitexpert wrote: Wouldn't it be more reasonable to design kite with more canopy curve than to try to distort some existing kite to have more curvature?
cause yer like shit well , when I am on holiday at the beach and my only kite is a little overpowered, I'll just whip out my CAD, draw me up a new kite send the design off to china and well shit my holiday is now finished, f.uck f.uck why did I listen to that kite twit f.uck!
kitexpert wrote: How about other line rows? Did you think to leave them like they were (what a mess) or should there be three more cross lines?
You are not on Earth are you? You're like trolling from space or something.

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:11 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:36 pm
Seriously are you disabled or something?
...
I have a kite for which I used such a line as shown in kitexperts pic. But not to alter the shape but to keep it in a simple way after having changed the size of the flying lines Y. There are for sure still many possiblities to improve foil kites, but the way actual models work might be more complicated than many may think. ... And...


People I respect are like Toby Bräuer or Stefano Moris, developing there own style or equipment in real world. Not people offending others from a virtual hiding place.

Choose your own which one you prefer to be.

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby kitexpert » Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:44 pm

foilholio wrote: an idea to simply alter kites bridle so to gain some topend and turn when
So you think, and it probably would boost huge :lol: Actually my earlier picture was too flattering, it should've been like that:

Image

Nasty kink in the middle of the kite - but who cares...

Of course I didn't expect that you had thought at all other line rows. You apparently forgot one small thing: foil kites are not arcs, they have a bridle :lol:

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby jakemoore » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:17 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:44 pm
Nasty kinky
Kiteexpert, that looks like a pretty primitive design with bridles coming up to every cell. Certainly this design could be optimized further!

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby jakemoore » Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:39 pm

foilholio wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:16 am
That drawing is not correct, it will fly, how exactly I will test soon :-)
Elastic lines
Pics or it didn't happen.

For myself I'm more interested in getting the most power out of a smaller kite. But the idea to depower or detune a kite to allow use in a wider wind range is a reasonable goal.

The panty hose link was not so much about elasticity, but a recognition that the stunt kite crowd has been using air-brakes to tame high winds before the dawn of kite-surf. Seems like it might be a worthy approach for primitive kite hackers. An added bonus of the pantyhose mod is that it will likely drive bonkers people who take kite forum too seriously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_brake_(aeronautics)
http://www.kitebuilder.com/techsheets/airbrake1.html

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby foilholio » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:30 pm

Wow the drama!

I have already tested the idea many times flying kites off bridles, it can work. I will try on flying lines next chance I get. May have to use some pantyhose :-)


Oh and airbrakes, intentional use of drag, what were those designers thinking? I will let "the expert" correct them on that mistake there.

Oh and more atrociousness from that wiki link

Image

Look at the kinks in the wings! Imagine the drag that creates. What were their designers thinking? One even has a hole in it. Didn't they consult "the expert" who would have told them that airfoils have one shape and changing it is just a very bad idea and that 15+years of CAD fiddling has made him know everything. This is an outrage why could they possibly do what they did there. Lucky airliners don't have this silliness do they?

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby kitexpert » Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:03 am

foilholio wrote:it can work
Yes, maybe it "works" somehow, there's also pictures of people surfing with garbage bags.

But if you really need kite for higher winds you should have a smaller kite for that. Trying to tinker a bigger kite for it is not a reasonable, result is uncertain and also not safe, if it flies properly at all.

Those pictures from airplane wings shows how primitive methods has to be used because there is no technology (yet) to do it better. There has been prototypes of wings that alter they shape without kinks, a bit like birds does - benefits for efficiency and agility are huge.

Flaps are used on take-offs and landings, then added drag is not so harmful but even a benefit. For kites there is not much use for anything similar.

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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby foilholio » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:39 pm

kitexpert wrote: Yes, maybe it "works" somehow, there's also pictures of people surfing with garbage bags.
Seriously wtf is wrong with you?
kitexpert wrote: But if you really need kite for higher winds you should have a smaller kite for that.
You kind of keep missing the bit about use when you don't have said other more appropriate kite size....
kitexpert wrote:result is uncertain and also not safe
If they are uncertain then how can you be certain they are unsafe?
kitexpert wrote: Those pictures from airplane wings shows how primitive methods has to be used because there is no technology (yet) to do it better.
Primitive lol, you must have a strange understanding of the word primitive to describe some Airplane technology as that. Let me help you with your English, if as you incorrectly describe there is no "better" technology, then by that definition something can not possibly be primitive. Now there is superior technology, but most likely not in other facets , economics, manufacture, durability, and lack of known qualities.
kitexpert wrote:Flaps are used on take-offs and landings
Great for those in kiting too. Board start take-offs, kite reverse take-offs,jump take-offs, jump landings.
kitexpert wrote: There has been prototypes of wings that alter they shape without kinks
It's unhealthy your obsession with kinks and bridles and tubes. Is it that you are still in the closet?

kitexpert wrote:benefits for efficiency and agility are huge
Amazing plain old flaps as used on Planes and kites have agility benefits.
kitexpert wrote:For kites there is not much use for anything similar.
Really, then why are they used ?

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Tying A bridles together to increase topend? or similar adjustable reefing system.

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:21 pm

kitexpert wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 11:03 am
Those pictures from airplane wings shows how primitive methods has to be used because there is no technology (yet) to do it better. There has been prototypes of wings that alter they shape without kinks, a bit like birds does - benefits for efficiency and agility are huge.
Yes, mother nature is still far in front, even if birds have further challenges to master, as to reproduce them self, they are still the more effective airplanes in many points.

Means there is still so much potential to develop. Nobody would have thought in 2005 that you can increase range of a kite like the Speed 1 so much further just by making the surface even smover and understanding real profiles with balloning and tensions in the kite as today within the Sonics for example.

But when in 2000 there has been still much potential to improve a foil kite by completly redesigning the bridle or using zipper kites, as I have done succesfully for some years. Nowadays the potential to improve a kite without completely redesigning CAD are very small. It is all more about to keep the original bridle shape and fine tune, than to pimp and alter it in some radical way. Even the jetflaps FS used for 10 years are gone since a while as a clean shape is more effective.


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