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Used beginner foil kites

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VB705
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Used beginner foil kites

Postby VB705 » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:18 pm

Looking to try a foil kite for free ride hydrofoiling and some twin tip. I see a few older models of various brands for sale often.

Not really sure which brands and versions to stay away from or are not friendly to the beginner foil kiter.

Any suggestions on which models?

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby foilholio » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:28 am

Old foils, and particularly ones people sell usually have issues and can need altering to get the best out of them. This is not something a beginner might enjoy or be able to do. Consider something like the Pansh A15, which new will still cost less than most second hand kites. You can get it in the size you want, and Ultralight fabric if you want sub 10knots riding.

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby VB705 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 am

I’ve been checking them out. Nice price for sure and wouldn’t get my feelings too hurt if I destroyed it. Just wondering if it was setup correctly right out of the bag.

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Re: Used beginner foil k

Postby jakemoore » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:09 am

Foilholio has written pages upon pages of how to mod the Pansh A15 because when it comes down to it, the kite has issues new. It’s not a bad kite, but I would hate for someone to judge foil kites generally based on an experience with Pansh. I would choose a used Flysurfer over new Pansh.

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jun 30, 2018 7:28 am

I’ve got a Speed3 12 for sale. Issues are it’s too small for me and a twin tip, I greatly prefer tubes on the foil and so I never used it much. Most people aren’t trying to rip you off.

You just gotta make sure the price is right for what you’re buying. Check out the prices on the new gear as used and comparable stuff you’re interested in. Ask about the things you need to look out for on that brand or model, and not set your heart on something and ignore the price.

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Re: Used beginner foil k

Postby foilholio » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:30 am

jakemoore wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:09 am
Foilholio has written pages upon pages of how to mod the Pansh A15 because when it comes down to it, the kite has issues new.

Kite is fine out of the bag, as have many others reported. Most posts from me are about mod results and effects on the kite, kiterfromgermany has been more prolific than me in mod posts. Mods are not to fix a bad kite, it is a good kite, mods are to make a good kite better. Yep Flysurfer are good kites too, I mod them too and have posted about it :-) The large amount of posts about the A15 driven by kiterfromgermany have revealed some really good developments. If someone was to purchase an A15 today, mods are now calculated and freely available that give a quite different and much improved kite. If someone has an existing A15 same improvements can be had. A free over the air update for kites so to speak. What a lovely community Pansh has fostered by selling the most affordable kites available. Who would have thought foil kites stigmatized as the most expensive and are now the cheapest. Are other brands jealous that there users don't give the same love and attention to freely improve their kites for them, probably. Has Pansh upset the traditional brand manufacturer relationship and not to mention stealership model, no doubt. Are there attacks on Pansh often from vested resellers, most definitely.


Now Jakemoore be honest have you even flown the kite?
VB705 wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:56 am
I’ve been checking them out. Nice price for sure and wouldn’t get my feelings too hurt if I destroyed it. Just wondering if it was setup correctly right out of the bag.
A15 and Aurora 2 all reports are that they are fine out of the bag. Genesis not good and needs improvements which I can help with. Other kites I would air some caution and look for reviews, the new high AR looks like it may have some issues.

Pansh is not to same quality as Flysurfer but not too distant from it either. Big issue with them is bar setup. I use my own bars so I have no problem. If you cant add pigtails to trim a bar don't expect things to work well till you do. It's a very basic easy skill and no sweat if you can already kite.

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby TomW » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:47 pm

I did a huge amount of research last year.

Ended up getting a Hyperlink 9m UL. It was by far the most expensive kite I've bought. I was really worried I would not think it was worth it. I was looking at used, or one of the Pansch. But potential problems for novice without any assistance is likely.

But I am now into 20 hours hydrofoiling with it. It was my only foil kite and I liked so much I was only waiting for the 10-17knots it has for range. Lucky it has been that kind of wind since I got it 2 months ago.
My original plan was to use it this year and slowly change over if I like it.
But I realized quickly how much better ( for me) a foil kite is.
So I bought a bigger 13m Sonic 2 used ( not flown yet) as I found it for 1000€ , and just ordered a Hyperlink 7m.

If you can find a used 9m hyperlink, I highly recommend it. A 12m if you are heavier than 80kg. I've seen some Hyperlink 12m for sale.
The bridles are simple, robust lines and I had them in a big tangle yesterday after release to leash in 20 knots on the beach. It took me 20 min to sort out, no big deal.

Otherwise there's a lot of race kites for sale. A lot of them are lightly used, but they have really complicated bridles. The Sonic 2 I bought has 4x more bridles than the Hyperlink. 3 times longer and 2 extra sets in middle of kite span.

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby Adventure Logs » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:50 pm

I would advise against first gen race kites so no Sonic1, Chrono1,or R1V1. Used foils tend to have bridle shrink so I would also say no Ozone's because you can't adjust the bridle, only replace. Also since this is your first foil, even though the prices are good, I wouldn't go Panish. They can sometimes be a handful and don't age too well. My suggestion is a Flysurfer Speed 4 Lotus(fantastic lightweight airtight fabric, great for lightwind hydrofoil), or a Speed 5. Speed 3's are starting to get to the age where the fabric is starting to get too porous, but if you can find a Colored Edition(last gen of S3), it might be decent. I would pick the Soul over the Hyperlink if you decide to splurge on a new foil. The Soul is lighter, cheaper, has an adjustable bridle so it will last longer, and has a 12 month free repair warranty. Can't get much better than that.

=Jason-

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Re: Used beginner foil k

Postby jakemoore » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:14 pm

foilholio wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:30 am
jakemoore wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:09 am
Foilholio has written pages upon pages of how to mod the Pansh A15.
Now Jakemoore be honest have you even flown the kite?
Yes. Have an UL A15 9m. Flown twice on land once on water. I need to sell it actually. Kite deserves credit for being light and making a pull in light winds. Also have a 6m Genesis that needs to go. Both are custom color. Solid White A15 and solid Green Genesis. My bar has a very big depower range so the purchaser will need to make pigtails so it flies right.

The OP - make me an offer I can’t refuse.

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Re: Used beginner foil kites

Postby foilholio » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:21 am

Wow Jakemoore I am impressed I didn't even realize you bought one. Genesis is not good out of the bag, not too complicated to fix though.

Found your review
jakemoore wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:25 am
New kite landed today. I had enough daylight for a short static flight on land. Standard lines on a 2016 Ozone bar (20m?) The wind was 12 knots recorded. Gusts to 14 by my estimate.

Ultralight is 1801 grams. The bridle is very long and fiddly. Its not a big deal but may put off somebody who is not disciplined with a foil kite. It was set up correctly from the factory. Connected to the Ozone bar using ELC as knots on the front lines and using just loops on the back lines. The kite inflated easily and came right to zenith, flying true and stable with 4 equal line lengths.

The upside is it does fly pretty well in lightish wind. Even when depowered down low at the edge of the window is easy to bring the kite to zenith without down looping. Its stable and seems reasonably durable. In flight the bar pressure is very light. When sheeted to the point of backstall there is noticeable sag in the rear lines. Turning speed is reasonable for a 9m foil kite. The canopy is solid in the air and is easy to do stunt kite style propeller tricks with this kite.

Moving the bar does not seem to make an immediate change in kite power in the way one would expect from flying tube kites or modern Ozone and Flysurfer foil kites. Sheeting in does not have a big effect on lift, but slows the kite down as it moves across the window. It also will pull the whole kite much deeper in the window. Sheeting out allows the kite to move to the edge, but with an increase in power as it speeds up until it reaches the edge. The result is a kite thats not very exciting, and I suspect some edging will be needed to access the depower.

Immediately I find my self wondering if I could get more out of it if I shortened B and C. I also wonder if I'll have time to bother. Compared to Hyperlink 9 in regular cloth at 1764 g. The Hyperlink is fast through the air, faster turning and produces a ton of lift when pulling on the bar. There is no question the Hyperlink will go earlier on the hydrofoil for me and be more fun to fly.

I think this Pansh is a good kite for the price. I think A15 in a larger size would make a good light wind insurance policy for somebody who does not want to spend more. But I think it would be a shame if a kiter were to judge foil kite performance based on this kite alone.
Interesting review. I could ask why you didn't like the kite, but I can see the performance wasn't enough for you. Your original idea to shorten BC would have just made performance worse. As has be said by me and others shortening Z is the trick to get more out of the kite. If a couple of minutes is too much for you then I guess it really is not the kite for you. Don't go looking at the other post I made about what I call a SIMPLE mod, you may vomit :-P

I think A15 is a good kite, suits surfing really well, which in turn would work for a beginner. If I didn't surf then the performance of a race kite would be too much to pass by, even for surfing it is fun on a race kite. But I am quite good at flying these things.

The A15 out of the bag is it's own kite not really the same as any other. If you like light bar pressure, it has the lightest. A lot of what you describe about feel and power from the kite is the bar pressure. It's so light it actually makes it a bit hard to fly in a way. Latest mods change all that though.


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