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New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

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F-Bear
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Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:21 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: SpaceBall Beach
Gear: Kites: Switch Element V3 9m, Switch Nitro V4 14m, Best Waroo 17m, Airush DNA 13m, Pansh A15 12m
Boards: Lightwave Wing, Slingshot Wakefoiler with H4 wing
Bars: Mash-up (favorite is older Airush with ozone trimmer, Switch CL, custom lines)
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:01 pm

Hi all, time for another update !

Yesterday we had 10kts with gusts to 17kts or so. As a reminder, I kite at a small lake with crazy winds. REALLY want to figure out how to fly my A15 12m so set it up and launched. If anything, just getting time on it at this location is good....the field I use to testing has far smoother wind and flying the kite there is pretty easy.

In any event, I had problems and am hoping by describing them the foil experts here can assist me ! Immediately after launching it straight downwind (no other option...no room) I tried to hold it at around 40degrees to my left so I could grab my hydrofoil board and get onto the water. But the kite kept shooting way forward and then folding itself up. Recovered it a couple times through dumb luck but then it folded up and twisted and fell through the bridle and was done...wouldn't fix itself or fly. The bridles where totally tangled (holy freaking COWS what a mess ! I know I know...part of foil kites but as an LEI guy this is crazy!) and I still wanted to try and learn the hydrofoil board so packed up the Pansh and got out my trusty 9m Switch Element. I did manage two or three "get up and go" attempts with the Element and hydrofoil board but it is very challenging to me to fly the kite one-handed in those winds. Practice makes perfect and I'll keep trying. And now I know why folk love their carbon hydrofoils.....carrying mine back from way downwind it became very very heavy. ha ha ha.

So am I not sheeting in enough on the Pansh? and that is why it goes crazy at the edge of the window? Flying it at 12 o'clock appears to be what foils like from reading posts on this site; is that the solution? Keep in mind the winds are GUSTY and scary....and I prefer to not get lofted into the street or powerlines so flying it at 12 o'clock at this spot is not preferred (if that is the solution).

I have my bar set like a normal LEI bar would be...Trim fully powered and bar pulled to chicken loop the lines are even at the kite. Is that right for this kite?

One last question...trying to figure out how to attach to the ELC (easy line connectors)...I am doing it wrong but have not found a picture or post yet that explains how it is done. How is this supposed to be done?

Really appreciate all the help on this journey. Not many other kiters around to help me out, and zero foil folk. There was another kiter at the lake and we spoke for a bit...he was on an Epic Infinity and totally overpowered during the gusts. At least his kite was flying most of the time.....my little 9m spent a lot of time in the water trying to relaunch. Makes me wonder "hey, if I did go out with the Pansh how would it have handled the gusts?".

Oh yeah..I do have a 'review' for those interested in Pansh A15 (sort of). I bought a set of their 15 meter lines for this kite and the custom bar I am messing with. Well.....not so sure about the lines. Especially the steering lines. They tangle SUPER easy. It is ridiculous...some sort of auto-tangle technology. The lines are not nearly as "stiff" as my other lines and just makes a mess if not always under tension. My local conditions are pretty bad (debris all over launch area, gusty winds, lack of experience, etc.) so maybe this is a non-event for other folk. But thought I'd mention it. I've swapped the steering lines with some old Best lines and will swap out the mains once I make up some lines for them.

F-Bear

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:11 am

F-Bear wrote:I tried to hold it at around 40degrees to my left
Foils are most stable at 12 directly overhead. There they are balanced and least likely to fold with slack lines.
F-Bear wrote: But the kite kept shooting way forward and then folding itself up
If you have 3-6 inches of oversheet or backstall on the bar setup, you can use that to help prevent overflying. Sheeting in either way will help prevent overflying.

Z more slack will be easier to control and less likely to overfly. Z tight is more likely to over fly. As the kite ages Z bridle will shrink. This happens quite dramatically in about the first 20-30 hours.
F-Bear wrote: So am I not sheeting in enough on the Pansh? and that is why it goes crazy at the edge of the window?
Yes
F-Bear wrote: Flying it at 12 o'clock appears to be what foils like from reading posts on this site; is that the solution?
Yes and sheeting in and maybe change Z.
F-Bear wrote:Keep in mind the winds are GUSTY and scary
Gusty is always very difficult with a foil. That said a skilled foil flyer seems to be able to out do tubes, as I have seen, but certainly not easy.


F-Bear wrote: and I prefer to not get lofted into the street or powerlines so flying it at 12 o'clock at this spot is not preferred
It may or it may not be an option, ultimately it's your safety and you need to decide.

Downwind not clear or safe is the most risky thing you can do in this sport and an easy path to death. That said lofting vertically is not the danger it is made out to be. Small kites often said to be safer because they are less likely to loft you are also the most dangerous if they do loft you. Small kites usually drop you like a rock, especially if you stall them. Where as large kites even if stalled are survivable or even soft. You can also get lofted sideways with the kite low, and there is no soft landing from this unless on water. In all situations your best friend is water and plenty of it downwind. Also learn to land jumps softly, I suggest gently sine the kite. And use the release before you get in a dangerous situation. Have safe margin downwind etc and when you near or cross it then release.
F-Bear wrote: I have my bar set like a normal LEI bar would be...Trim fully powered and bar pulled to chicken loop the lines are even at the kite. Is that right for this kite?
Experienced foil kiters usually have over sheet on the bar or trim.
F-Bear wrote: One last question...trying to figure out how to attach to the ELC (easy line connectors)...I am doing it wrong but have not found a picture or post yet that explains how it is done. How is this supposed to be done?
Couldn't find a vid.

https://flysurfer.com/download/4863/ Page 10, section 3.4 .

F-Bear wrote: They tangle SUPER easy. It is ridiculous...some sort of auto-tangle technology.
Line might have twists. Untwist by tying to something and running both hands with friction down entire lines many times. You can also run the line over and around something like a harness hook. You are basically making the line maintain it's orientation over the hook or through hands which forces twists out. Otherwise if you can hang the lines in no wind ... :-) that will work.
F-Bear wrote: The bridles where totally tangled (holy freaking COWS what a mess !
Never disconnect anything or pull tight. 30seconds I bet I would surprise you. Tangles are the crux of foils.

F-Bear
Rare Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:21 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: SpaceBall Beach
Gear: Kites: Switch Element V3 9m, Switch Nitro V4 14m, Best Waroo 17m, Airush DNA 13m, Pansh A15 12m
Boards: Lightwave Wing, Slingshot Wakefoiler with H4 wing
Bars: Mash-up (favorite is older Airush with ozone trimmer, Switch CL, custom lines)
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:37 pm

Thanks Foilholio ! The manual for the flysurfer kite was really cool to read....I just squinted hard and pretended it said "Pansh Manual". ha ha ha ha. That was a top-drawer manual; maybe someday I'll own a Flysurfer. The Soul model looks very interesting. But for now, I shall learn and get experience with my A15. REALLY wanna get good at flying it, gusts and all.

I got the ELC sorted out, they are now connected the correct way.

And I've got a normal 1:1 bar hooked up to the kite now....I'll play around with it and figure a normal bar is better to learn with since I am not used to a 2:1 bar.

F-Bear

Regis-de-giens
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Try to shorten a bit the length of SPL C line (which goes from A to Z and through the C pulley) , Like -10 cm as a starter). Before doing it very properly
, you can try first by making a local knot on this line to avoid disconnecting all the speed system.

You should gain in stability (against a bit of power) ;

lengthen Z by adding 10 cm extensions goes to the same profile change but you would have to also shorten 10 cm on your rear lines to recover the same AoA.

TomW
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby TomW » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:12 pm

You shouldn't be trying to learn to hydrofoil using a kite that you are unfamiliar with or have to pay attention to while trying get going on Hydrofoil.

F-Bear
Rare Poster
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:21 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Local Beach: SpaceBall Beach
Gear: Kites: Switch Element V3 9m, Switch Nitro V4 14m, Best Waroo 17m, Airush DNA 13m, Pansh A15 12m
Boards: Lightwave Wing, Slingshot Wakefoiler with H4 wing
Bars: Mash-up (favorite is older Airush with ozone trimmer, Switch CL, custom lines)
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:50 pm

Tom W - Hi. I agree 100% ! Trying to do two totally new things at the same time is a bad strategy......unfortunately for me I live in an area with low winds. The reason I bought the A15 was because the internet says that foil kites can fly in lower wind. I also bought a hydrofoil for the same reason; they work well in lower winds. I want to spend more time on the water so am hoping this combo will do the trick. There are certainly other options for me, but the $350 price tag of the A15 was a big selling point. If it works out maybe I'll invest in an ultralight foil in a bigger size.

A guy here flies a giant inflatable with some success (he doesn't hydrofoil though), but I choose the 12m A15 since a large kite doesn't appear to work well with hydrofoiling and our winds. They are low, with low low low lulls...but we also get 2X or even 3X gusts which means with a bigger kite you got a problem. I own an old Best 17m Waroo which is AWESOME for flying in steady coastal winds but totally useless in my local area. Once a lull hits and it won't fly, game over !

Last few weeks have been really low winds......not even the A15 can fly. Hoping to get some wind tomorrow and resume my journey of learning to hydrofoil and fly a foil kite. In the meantime....I've been doing a ton of skating with my longboard. Keeps the board skills up but not nearly as fun as being on the water.

F-Bear


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