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New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

For all foil kite riders


foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:24 pm

You could fly them on any bar. Issues you will face are is there sufficient bar throw, does the flagging system provide sufficient movement on the flag line, is the bar big enough and are the line lengths compatible.

A15 needs a lot of bar throw/trim, circa 100cm+. Bigger kites need more throw/trim. The 18m really pushes what is reasonable. My mod improves this though.

For foil kites flagging, a rough rule is half wingspan for fifth line flag and full wing span for front line flag and then maybe a bit more if you are cautious. A15 has a wingspan of between 6.6m and 9.5m depending on the size, check the website. If you limit flag length correctly you can prevent tangles. If you get it too short your kite may remained a bit powered and spin etc, not good. For front line I just let it run free as I want it to work no mater what. I generally don't use a fifth line except on high wind kites. They are good for beginners to give more predictable flagging, you can use them to self land quite well and easy. You can self land on a front line but kite spins more and it is a bit harder on the kite,and can get damaged in high winds( that's from flysurfer experience).

Foil kites like wider bars. Foils are slower and less responsive than LEIs. You use a bigger bar the bigger the kite. I would say a 12m would be good with a 50 or 55cm bar, but 15m would like a 60cm and 18m 65cm.

If lines are not the right length for the kite you will need to make extensions. You are best to make these out of flying line to keep weight and drag down.

One other thing is the way the kite joins the lines. Foils if using the way LEIs attach with pigtails and knots and larksheads then this causes tangles when they can mix with other lines or bridles. This can happen every fucking time you setup or pack down. And worse if you front stall the kite and lines are slack it can even happen in the air, not to mention with slack lines on the water it happens very easy. I surf with my foils I slack lines like you have never seen before. My kites get rolled in waves and have all sorts of things happen. I never have this issue. My setups are a breeze, something I hate about LEIs. Flysurfer a long time ago invented a little metal connector called the ELC, Easy Line Connector. It prevents tangles very well and My A15 came with them, Thanks Pansh, and I have many spares from other kites. The other option is to thread the lines onto the kite like the bridles connect, but this will cause a huge problem of making access to bridle a bigger pain than it already is.

F-Bear
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Gear: Kites: Switch Element V3 9m, Switch Nitro V4 14m, Best Waroo 17m, Airush DNA 13m, Pansh A15 12m
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:15 pm

Well it is time for another update on the Pansh A15 12m.

A couple days ago we had some wind so I went to my local park to fly the kite and do some landboarding with it.

Right now, a normal bar is attached to the kite as I'm re-working my 2:1 bar. The normal bar does work, but I think I prefer the 2:1...we'll see after I get it back on the kite. But I was able to fly just fine with the normal bar in about 5-8kts of wind. But in order to turn, I'd sheet in a lot since the steering lines where usually very slack.

Got a crash course in untangling the bridles, as at one point the kite turned into a taco and twisted around a bit. "oh man...." I thought, "I have no freaking clue how these bridles are supposed to look". But I knew there were porked up, as the kite didn't fly and they didn't look right. Spent some time looking at everything and was able to untangle them. Since then, I've watched some videos and now understand the mixer and bridles much better, very cool stuff being able to control the camber. If I wanted I could TOTALLY customize the airfoil shape (camber, twist, ect) just by adjusting bridles. That is very cool. But I will leave it all alone for now, as the kite works just fine. I do plan on doing a mixer test and recording all the various lengths of all bridles, as a reference. Pansh doesn't have this info on their site, or else I can't find it.

After static flying for a bit, I decided it was finally time to hop on the landboard. First few attempts to go where a total fail, partly due to low wind and mostly due to my bad flying skills. But then things clicked (the big "click" is you gotta be mentally ahead of the kite, just responds slower than my LEI but then again the wind was so low they'd never be flying in the first place ! Also DO NOT CHOKE THE KITE ! Less sheeting = goodness for a foil). I started rolling around and moving the kite around the window; the backstall trick is really cool as it lets me put the kite deep into the window. Did not try a downloop for power or to get going, still a bit scared of the depower abilities with this normal bar. For sure will try it once the 2:1 bar is back in business.

Was having a lot of fun until a very unfortunate event occurred. Someone from the parks dept. came out and informed me I could not landboard on the field. Said it was OK for me to fly the kite, but not be mobile with it on the board. This field is pretty big, and there was literally no one around. No idea why they even care, but I guess I gotta go talk to the head of the parks dept. and figure it out. Hopefully I won't lose access to this field as it is the only one close to me that works. If anyone has any advice on dealing with this type of issue I am all ears. The reason given to me for not being able to use the board was "it takes up to much space". Makes no sense, big field + zero people. I've used this field for years. If there is other folk using it I give them a wide berth or just leave the kite in the car and go skateboarding. The official didn't wanna hear any of this.

Anyway, it is windy today so I may try the Pansh on the water with my hydrofoil board (Slingshot H4 wing). I've never used a hydrofoil board with a kite so probably wiser to go out with my normal LEI kites...but if they won't fly due to wind then Mr. Pansh (who was bought for this purpose) will get a go. Quick question: can I self-launch by putting some sand on the trailing edge of the kite? Or is that not a wise thing to do? I don't think a stake is an option at this spot, it won't hold. is there another way to self-launch? None of my normal LEI options seem to apply to a foil kite !

F-Bear

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:39 am

Yes you can self launch like that. In really light wind some times you don't need sand at all. Best to launch from down wind as it allows you to sort lines and bridles out easiest. There is side window launching where you sand the tip. It is more complicated as you need to move your body a bit, up and down wind and sorting lines/bridles is harder. There is advanced downwind launch which is the quickest, where you just sand both tips. Also a little trickier but much easier than a side launch. You need to vary the U shape of the kite, more U for higher winds and less for lighter. Some preinflation is a must for most launches especially in light wind. If the inlet vent area is not inflated enough, it will have trouble catching air to inflate more when you give line tension. Generally stand behind the kite and just hold the middle vent up and open with 2 hands into the air to inflate it a bit. When you get good at launch it is possible to launch quickly from rolled up kite to flying in as little as 30seconds, and quite relaxed in 1min30.

With tangles the rule is to never disconnect anything, lines or bridles. You are usually in for a long one if you do. There is methods for untangle, like following the LE to remove all bridles, passing your bar thru lines to untangle, a gentle teasing method to untangle bridles. It's really important to never pull things tight, always try to work them loose and work with them like that.

Yes there is lots of adjustments you can do on foils. It is kind of a benefit and negative. Lots has been written on how to tune and the effects. Generally if you want to experiment, just make sure you can go back to original.

jannik
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby jannik » Tue Aug 28, 2018 10:44 am

F-Bear wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:15 pm
.........Quick question: can I self-launch by putting some sand on the trailing edge of the kite? Or is that not a wise thing to do? I don't think a stake is an option at this spot, it won't hold. is there another way to self-launch? None of my normal LEI options seem to apply to a foil kite !

F-Bear
I sometimes use an old pull-string bag from a kite which I fill with sand, stones or what ever available. Then I have a carabiner on a peice of string which I just tie to it. Works like a stake.
That carabiner on a string can also be used to tie around other objects and is easy to carry with you.

TomW
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby TomW » Tue Aug 28, 2018 5:44 pm

F bear.
Check out the videos online. It's a totally different technique to launch and land a foil kite.

F-Bear
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby F-Bear » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:40 pm

I ventured out into our local lake yesterday for the first time......first time with my hydrofoil board and first time with the 12m A15 (by the way...I think Pansh calls it an "A12" but in order to no cause confusion I'll stick with A15 12m).

But before I could get out the kite....I had a dose of reality. The winds where "high" (ha ha for our area 12kts is high) and I decided to just use my trusty 9m Element instead. I know that kite well and didn't wanna have two new things going on at the same time. Plus, with no experience landing or launching the A15 in decent wind figured this was a bad plan. If we had a wide-open launch area than no problem, but it is very tight with power lines, a road, and a pedestrian path only a few meters away. Thank you to all with advice on how to self launch/land, I need to get more proficient at it in dry land before attempting at this lake. Safety first ! I also feel more secure with the 2:1 bar (which is waiting for the ozone trimmer to arrive) since I can depower more with it.

The hydrofoil was interesting...being my first time I knew this would be a learning experience. But wow just getting into the start position was really hard. Flying the kite in gusty winds one-handed is a challenge, but the biggest one is just keeping the board in the right spot. I am going strapless, which sure doesn't help. Plus the board is big and floaty. After an hour of struggle in the water I came in and put the kite away and just practiced with the board trying to figure out how to hold it with one hand and keep my feet on it. My conclusion is this is not easy. I've got a short mast on right now (for learning) which means the counter-torque to my hand/feet is pretty low and the board just wants to flip over and also rise out of the water (big floaty board). I'll read these forums for some advice but am thinking a quick easy fix is to just tie a rope (using a couple of the strap inserts) across the middle of the board (long-wise) that I can grab with my free hand. It will act like a grab-handle. No fuss no muss and it shouldn't interfere with my feet (at least not at this stage). Really don't wanna use foot straps...but if the rope doesn't work out then I'll have to consider it.

It is windy again today but I got the 14m Nitro and normal TT in the car.....figure might as well enjoy the wind !

F-Bear

TomW
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby TomW » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:57 pm

Get some foothooks.

ladomi
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby ladomi » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:27 pm

F-Bear wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:40 pm
But wow just getting into the start position was really hard. Flying the kite in gusty winds one-handed is a challenge, but the biggest one is just keeping the board in the right spot. I am going strapless, which sure doesn't help. Plus the board is big and floaty.
I'm new to hydrofoiling as well with only 5 sessions. My first time out, I encountered the same difficulty as you. I use an old 6' Slingshot Little Fat Bastard and the SS H4 wing on a 24" mast. It took me an hour to figure out a way, but I did have a huge advantage working on it in waist deep water so I was able to reset easily and get many attempts in that hour. I imagine it would be much harder in deep water.

It seems very similar to getting up on a strapless surfboard but I found I primarily needed a change in kite technique. I rest my heels on the board and do not press them down at all. My back heel is an inch or two over the deck from the rail in line with the mast. My front heel rests on the edge where the rail meets the deck and I use it to get the board oriented. With the front heel and using very gentle pressure, I push or pull the board laterally to pointing upwind slightly. I swing the kite back a bit past 12:00 and initiate the turn back forward. When the momentum switches forward I sheet out a fair amount to get the kite to pivot turn and dive straight downwind of me. As it powers up, I try to pressure both heels evenly. The tricky part is if you start flying immediately like I often do, your front foot is not in a balanced position for flight. You then have to work it over to a more centered position.

This is what has worked for me so far. Hopefully this might help you.

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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby james » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:09 pm

Can’t believe the amount of tuning that people deem acceptable on a new kite. Jeez I know they are cheap but it’s like you are doing the finishing/r&d for them while they take the profit.

🎣😂

foilholio
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Re: New to Foils, bought a Pansh A15 12m

Postby foilholio » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:59 pm

It's only getting a bar to work with the kite. If you never learned that then you may have missed the joy of the different bar types out there. You will also be stuck paying top dollar, when you could have new bars for $100-150(with lines) or recycle old bars over and over.


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