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2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

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kriskris
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2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby kriskris » Fri Aug 31, 2018 3:39 pm

I am in the process of getting to know my new A15. Could anybody of current users post their bar pictures for this kite, please? I am interested in mods that would help to depower better and turn kite faster :D
Looks like I need to build something....

Regis-de-giens
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Aug 31, 2018 7:32 pm

2 : 1 bar is a good solution to double both agility and depower on a given stroke. Not difficult to build (I'll try to recover the french topics from my previous mods) but the easier is to seek for an old cabrihna XBow Or switchblade 12m (approx 2007 from memory) which "Overdrive bar is 2 : 1) ; rare but cheap (30-50 euro sometimes with the kite)

Image

... and you also directly get a mini-CL without modification if you disconnect the loop part and replace your hook harness by a rope and a ring (wonderful in HF and surf)

foilholio
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby foilholio » Sat Sep 01, 2018 1:35 am

I hate pulley bars. You could consider my kite mod. Also BRM bar style is good, but bar ends are nice :-)

kriskris
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby kriskris » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:07 pm

Thanks Regis and Foilhoolio. I used once or twice pulley bar with old cabrinha kite but it felt weird. I still consider this option vs. wider 60-65 cm bar. How different is BRM bar? Is it just much longer depower range/rope that would help me with A15.

kriskris
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby kriskris » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:18 pm

Foilhoolio. I tried to read through the thread about A15 mods. O man, I am intimidated by all the minutia. It seems like a lot could go wrong....Also there is not a one specific mod that is presented like a cookbook recipe for newbie like me. Bar route seems to be an easy way out. at least for now.

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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby foilholio » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:52 pm

Sorry for minutia. I have explained it simply but I would guess you have no idea what that meant. There is a lot of terms specific to foils and mainly Flysurfers or people experienced with Flysurfers. So I wouldn't expect someone new to foils to pick it all up.

I would suggest you ask questions on anything you think you slightly don't understand, even if you think it is stupid.

As to the mods, I will give you a brief run down.

I started by altering Z making it shorter. A few others copied and liked it. This is a basic adjustment for foil kites and I suggest you try it as it will change the kite the most and be needed when it does out of tune.

I moved on to a WAC line, a simple line between A and B in the mixer. I am not aware of anyone copying this, and I now don't use it but did like it.

KiterfromGermany got involved. He used a 2:1 bar. Tried a variaty of things changing the mixer and bridles at the kite. He eventually came to something he sort of invented called the back weighted mixer. It was quite smart and he was very happy. Videos of the kite looked good. But alas he wasn't fully happy and for a reason I thought would happen, and he gave up on it. I think he just adjusted Z now...

Somewhere I got involved again. Keen with KiterfromGermanies progress and the interesting ideas he had, I wanted to try his mod. I waited for him to finish it, but had my own ideas and saw problems with his, so I did my own thing.

And that is where we are. I think my current Mod trumps earlier ones and KiterfromGermany's, though I never tried his.

I don't really suggest reading that whole thread. It is a lot of ideas and most likely too much to grasp at once .
kriskris wrote:How different is BRM bar?
phpBB [video]

kriskris wrote: Is it just much longer depower range/rope that would help me with A15.
Yes, but depends how you make it. It is a start to ideas of better things :-)
kriskris wrote: I used once or twice pulley bar with old cabrinha kite but it felt weird.
Yep I hate them
kriskris wrote:wider 60-65 cm bar
Good size for the 15m
kriskris wrote:It seems like a lot could go wrong....
Yep, if you can revert to original you will be fine, but it won't be easy at all.
kriskris wrote: Also there is not a one specific mod that is presented like a cookbook recipe for newbie like me.
Maybe one day.
kriskris wrote:Bar route seems to be an easy way out.
Yes and Z adjustment.

kriskris
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby kriskris » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:43 pm

Allright I am going to start with baby steps. What does Z shortening do? It seems counterintuitive if you want more depower/turning speed?

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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby foilholio » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:29 pm

Shortening Z Increases camber. Which means more power, better reverse flying so relaunching, faster turning, more responsive, less stall, less upwind, less stable, more likely to overfly or collapse. That said A15 is very stable and can handle Z being shortened a lot.

It has no real effect on depower (except for stability). Foils do not depower exactly like LEI. Just because you adjust a bridle at the rear has nothing to do with depower. The depower is controlled by the B bridle, change that and depower changes. That said adjusting Z can move your trim position, especially if you move the pulley line position at the rear like me to change it.

The turning speed improves I think because of less stall and a bit more speed maybe or the better reverse flying, not sure. It is probably to do with that the bar is now activating more of the wing, so you get more effect for the same bar input, also hence the better response. There is no free cake stability and upwind are serious problems.

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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby Laughingman » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:49 pm

kriskris wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:18 pm
Foilhoolio. I tried to read through the thread about A15 mods. O man, I am intimidated by all the minutia. It seems like a lot could go wrong....Also there is not a one specific mod that is presented like a cookbook recipe for newbie like me. Bar route seems to be an easy way out. at least for now.
Kris if you have never built a bar a 2:1 is not the one you should start with. Try building a 1:1 with a lot of throw or a lot of available trim and move up to a 2:1 if you find the 1:1 is not something you can get used to with the A15.. this is what I am going to do but I have already built many bars.

kriskris
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Re: 2:1 Bar for A15 15m?

Postby kriskris » Tue Sep 04, 2018 1:41 am

Thank you Gentleman. I am waiting for wind to test things. Will report findings.


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