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Flysurfer Peak 4

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tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:50 am

Hi Horst,

Is 3m storm kite? Im mean 20 knots average wind for underpowered HF free/wave ride. 6m soul is WAY to big for this. How it drift f.e. vs Soul? - Peak 3 6 i tried drifted very bad - because of lack of structure it collapsed on slack lines /in lower winds/. Also how it is vs Concept air wave as HF storm kite? I dont remember when i last time put kite in drink in stronger winds so relaunch doesnt bother me.

many thanks

Tomas

tomtom
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby tomtom » Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:55 am

Also can somebody explain to me - why SS are so powerful? I mean from aerodynamic pov. They shouldnt be so different than Leis - and yet - they are even more powerfull than full double skins foils.
I just dont get it. And i dont question it - it is reality which i experienced

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:23 pm

SS have a relatively bad L/D ratio so they stay deep in the wind window with a higher AoA by design, so they pull a lot ; like a trainer kite will pull you very strong vs its area, but few effective traction in the your driving direction. So more effort on your legs but few speed. It is to me also why their higher end is poor : they do not go far enough in the wind window.

I do not think SS are comfortable and really adapted to storms as they lack of structure. Full depower is very safe and instantaneous (which is a very good point in storm), but hardly dosable (ON-OFF) , and when OFF, it may fluttermore or less and will send the kite too deep in the window , downwind. About Conceptair, I wanted a high wind kite for surfing on a HF and was hesitating between Pulsion 3.69m and Wave 3m, so I got valuable feedback from 3 foilers and 1 surfer I know using the Wave 3m and 4.5m ; some are ex-LEI riders in high winds and recently converted to the CA Wave, initially reluctant to foil kites in high winds; they found out that it is the nicer kite they ever tried in high wind and irregular gusts around 35-40 knots on a HF; impressive depower and filtering the wind irregularities; other riders were struggling with small LEIs with this high offshore wind. IMO if your use is mainly with TT board, you may consider pulsion 369 for its better upwind (which is the final choice I made yesterday by the way)

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omg
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby omg » Fri Nov 23, 2018 3:38 pm

I am very interested in 11m Peak 4, would that be a perfect marginal wind HF kite and would it work with surfboard as well?
I understand the Peak 4 won’t be jumping to the moon and the relaunch limitations etc, but any thoughts about the 11m version would be highly appreciated!

Regis-de-giens
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Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:34 pm

11m is too small for marginal wind even for light weight riders, you could ride earlier with a larger kite, like 15m2 or larger for heavy riders.

winduser
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby winduser » Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:46 pm

phpBB [video]

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omg
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby omg » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:15 am

Exactly Winduser, that was my point, I remember seeing that video before and hemce the Peak 4 could be the ticket for light winds, and the lightness would lead to good maneuverability I would assume. Very interested in the feedback on the 11meter.

windrider1
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby windrider1 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:26 am

Honestly your video sucks as far as giving an idea about the performance of the kite. Can somebody that has a peak 4 put a decent video up showing the features and performance of this kite . Really interested in the kite as a light wind do it all . And let me say im Really surprised at the poor launch of this kite from flysurfer . What happened to getting the kite in the hands of a few experienced kiters to test out and give a review at launching. :bye:

Horst Sergio wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:14 am
kiter4fun123 wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 10:49 am
Sorry for all the questions but I've never tried a single skin foil :)
For those who have never tried, compared to a closed cell foil:
- more power per m² factor by 1,2 - 1,5
- a bit less windrange
- less upwind
- extrem light weight and therefore great lightwind stability
- depower feel inbetween tubes and closed foils: shaking in the bar when full depowered and flapping
but also great drift when full depowered
- great turning especially the peak4 with its tip cells, continuous Variation of loop till spin with always good pull
- unknown water relaunch behaviour

phpBB [video]

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Horst Sergio
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Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
Gear: Just MONOFOILS, no training wheels ;-)
OZONE chrono, FLYSURFER sonic²/r, CONCEPTAIR wave
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Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:54 pm

@Tomtom
Additioally to what Regis-de-giens already explained and I agree with, I am also not sure how compfortable a 3 m² Peak4 will feel in more than 30 knts of wind as especially here no experience with single Skins. It can be that flapping and therefore bar shaking is not so relaxing anymore.
I think in 20 - 25 knts it could be still very nice and better for HF free/wave riding than Soul. When I tried the Soul 10 and 8 m² a while ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad449f3R0tw
my impression was that it is to much Freeride-Freerace to drift well enough for slalom and waves at least not as well as my ConceptAir Wave https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Bien5Pysg

I think when talking about drifting, which you felt bad for Peak 3 in 6 m², that I just shortly tried 2 years ago https://kitejunkie.com/slides/slide/fly ... ktvideo-56 you have to differentiate:
- If you loose line tension due to low wind or exceeding wind with your own downwind speed, any single skin will immediately collapse due to lack of structure, while a closed cell could still drift back and regain line tension.
- on the other hand, a closed cell as Soul or Wave will never react and stop as fast in front of its windwindow as a singe skin can. The two reasons for that are, to use the comparision between 3 m² Peak4 and 4,5 m² Wave, which should have both pretty similar windrange:

When the Wave with its 0,9 kg canopy and similar weight of air inside so a total mass of around 1,8 kg flies towards edge of wind window (eww), it will overshoot a bit and than thanks to its always formed S-profile (open Z) will pitch up by itself and drift back prety well, all within lets say 1-2 sec.
A single skin Peak instead with its total mass of just a 1/3 ! (0,6 kg) will, when reaching its eww, start to flutter with its trailing edge which means a virtual increase of thickness of the trailing edge and therefore an airflow with much more resistance, so pulling the aerodynamic break hardly. In this combination low weight and high resistance, a single skin is able to stop nearly immediately in lets say 1/2 sec on the eww with the additionaly Benefit, that it will be stearable all the time, while a normal foil is "incontactable" in the moment it drifts back by itself.

This means even if the single skin can't hold its shape outside of the wind window, it is nearly impossible that it will colapse as long you are rinding as me with a slow foil that can't exceed actual wind speed. The described behaviour is very interesting for slalom/waves, why I hope to compare both named kites more also in higher winds in the next time.

But I also agree with Regis, in the long term in high wind, I think I will search for a more freeride compromise similar to ConceptAir Pulsion 3,7 m² but would prefer to find something with the control benefit of a Z-bridle, but similar good drift as the ConceptAirs, but for sure not with the interesting type of drift and manoeuvrability as Peak.

About the high power of single skin one important factor is that the profile curvature is much higher than on closed cells, which causes high force per m², but also bad glide ratio.


@omg:
I think low wind is much about the different compromises you always have to make and therefore an 11 m² could be a personal solution for sure and also strong enough as it will pull more than any existing big tube, if you accept what you said and as you see in the video, but as I have another focus, I would prefer the much more expensive closed cell race kites for light wind for me.


@windrider1:
sorry if there has been the wrong impression, that this should be a full test like done with lecca-lecca and Wave.
It was just to share my very first impression with a new preserial kite (not even in final trim as I heard after). I think delivery of serial just starts now, so you may have to wait a bit till flysurfer and professional tester come with more info. Or just ask polite a concrete question as Tomas and if I can answer it, I will try to do so in my free time.
Oh, and I think for most readers it is more comfortable to not full quote, just delet the part of the quote you don't refer to, or use @ as seen abouve.

Regis-de-giens
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 885
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Flysurfer Peak 4

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Nov 24, 2018 2:53 pm

I fully agree with all your analysis with no restrictions at all ! Rare for me . :lol:
Horst Sergio wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 12:54 pm
But I also agree with Regis, in the long term in high wind, I think I will search for a more freeride compromise similar to ConceptAir Pulsion 3,7 m² but would prefer to find something with the control benefit of a Z-bridle, but similar good drift as the ConceptAirs, but for sure not with the interesting type of drift and manoeuvrability as Peak.
For your information i think that the pulsion 369 has additional spare briddles attachment for optional mounting with 2x2 pulleys and Z lines. Benoit proposes on demand a speed system to modify the pulsion accordingly as far as i know.


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