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aluminum solar shading profile as strut

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direnc
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aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby direnc » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:41 pm

Hi,

I am thinking of building a DIY hydrofoil. I want to build an affordable hydrofoil for learning. I am not looking for a high performance one. My priority is ease of build, and affordable price.

Is it possible to use an aluminum solar shading profile as shown on the attached image?
This is architectural aluminum, so I have no idea how strong it is. If strength is an issue, there are 15cm wide, 3.5cm thick ones, as well, but maybe those will have too much drag?

If you guys think this won't work, I will look into building the strut from wood. Then, shoud I build it from solid wood or plywood? Which will require less or no glass ?

Also, how about cutting the front wing from a skateboard deck? A concave laminated deck must be stiffer than regular plywood. Any ideas?
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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby Arcsrule » Tue Nov 18, 2014 8:51 pm

Read this: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2386805

I'm following this build and all the links. I've ordered everything i need with possibly enough left over for another foil, for less than $400 total. When my wood come in, i can start my build as that is my hold up.

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby Hawaiis » Tue Nov 18, 2014 9:49 pm

direnc wrote:Hi,

I am thinking of building a DIY hydrofoil. I want to build an affordable hydrofoil for learning. I am not looking for a high performance one. My priority is ease of build, and affordable price.

Is it possible to use an aluminum solar shading profile as shown on the attached image?
This is architectural aluminum, so I have no idea how strong it is. If strength is an issue, there are 15cm wide, 3.5cm thick ones, as well, but maybe those will have too much drag?

If you guys think this won't work, I will look into building the strut from wood. Then, shoud I build it from solid wood or plywood? Which will require less or no glass ?

Also, how about cutting the front wing from a skateboard deck? A concave laminated deck must be stiffer than regular plywood. Any ideas?
1.5mm in wall thickness is marginal, it will be OK if you don't jump with it.

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby revhed » Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:33 pm

D,
Been ther done that, it will have WAY to much twist flew and may I ask how you plan to attach it to the fuse and board?
I tried this in 2009 before I knew better using almost the same alu as you speced, sure wasted my time and as I have already made very clear it is possible to bond and or weld alu but you better know what you are doing or it will fail!
I would say go wood core,carbon skins.
As for a skateboard deck for wings, you will have to profile it to at least close to a NACA profile but maybe the wood laminate is of good quality.
Just my 2 centimes worth.
R H

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby direnc » Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:22 pm

revhed wrote:D,
Been ther done that, it will have WAY to much twist flew and may I ask how you plan to attach it to the fuse and board?
I tried this in 2009 before I knew better using almost the same alu as you speced, sure wasted my time and as I have already made very clear it is possible to bond and or weld alu but you better know what you are doing or it will fail!
I would say go wood core,carbon skins.
As for a skateboard deck for wings, you will have to profile it to at least close to a NACA profile but maybe the wood laminate is of good quality.
Just my 2 centimes worth.
R H
Thanks for your input. I thought it might work because the Liquid Force hydrofoil strut seems similar, but possibly it's made from a higher grade aluminum. As for attaching it to the fuse, it has two screw slots in the middle. But if you've tried this before, no need to waste time with this. Wood it is then!

So, should I use plywood or hardwood ?
If I make the strut and fuselage thick enough, can I get away without using any glass ? As I said, I am not looking for high performance. Just something to get me foiling.

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby Denisesewa » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:23 am

If you want to build with as little glass work as possible check out " Hawaii's" Koa wood build, I would have done the same but couldnt find a source for the koa and used oak, ( not a good wood choice). I would make wings with Baltic birch ply with anhedral and dihedral, wings are easy to glass.

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2382338&start=10

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby liquidforcekites » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:48 am

Hey! this is Gary from LF...we love all this experimentation!!!! and we thank a lot of people in this forum for their input, observations and feedback during our development process..

I am not trying to hijack this thread...please don't think that! i am just trying to "pay it back" to this amazing community of foil kiters!

so..as you can imagine we tried a ton of things including "off the shelf" aluminum extrusions that were used for aircraft wing struts...all the way to construction supports...

there are a few things that you have to be aware of with these materials...

1. the torsional rigidity. this has been brought up i see earlier in the thread..and this is a big issue as it is very hard to find something "off the rack" that does not twist under the forces of hydro foiling.

2. The foil shape..if you look at that foil shape in this thread it is symmetrical fore and aft..this actually creates a ton of drag because the release of the water spins off the center width peak...you would think this does not matter..but please trust us..it does...BIG TIME..

3. the connection to the mast / strut plate..this is where we found what we call the "beer can effect"..(yep we drink beer..tons), but...what happens is if you get a strong weld..which is a challenge..the dispersement of force, well, is not dispersed..it is focused and you get a creased mast / strut or what we call beer can...

OK!! enjoy the process!!! we know this is all part of the fun!!!

see you guys on the water!

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby Flyfish » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:43 am

Hi Gary,
Super stoked you are communicating on this topic!

You mentioned you guys tried aircraft strut material. What do you think of the heavy duty strut here?

http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html

Thanks
Jim

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby davesails7 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:04 am

Flyfish wrote:What do you think of the heavy duty strut here?
Looks too thick at 1.38" (35 mm). I think you want something about half that thickness.

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Re: aluminum solar shading profile as strut

Postby revhed » Mon Dec 15, 2014 1:55 pm

liquidforcekites wrote:
1. the torsional rigidity. this has been brought up i see earlier in the thread..and this is a big issue as it is very hard to find something "off the rack" that does not twist under the forces of hydro foiling.

2. The foil shape..if you look at that foil shape in this thread it is symmetrical fore and aft..this actually creates a ton of drag because the release of the water spins off the center width peak...you would think this does not matter..but please trust us..it does...BIG TIME..
It will be most interesting to see how the L F strut does in the FK24 flex and twist test.
I agree sym struts are not very good,
as are flat wings.
R H


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