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Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

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Peert
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Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby Peert » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:45 pm

Please let me know what you think; would the Tungsten copycat method (see below link) be suitable to copy (make a mould) of nice hydrofoil wings you can borrow from your fellow Foilers?
Since the wings are considerably longer than the fins in Tungstens topic, I am concerned they might come out deformed. Is the mould stiff enough to make sure the wings would come out fine?

Is it fair to copy wings for private use?

http://www.losethestraps.com/forum/view ... 5400ed5293

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Re: Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby BWD » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:16 pm

yes you can copy wings without breaking any laws.
It is not wrong to do so, and general wing designs can't really be patented, most basic airfoils are developed from open source data, many from government funded research.
Many others are also public domain, shared by their creators.
in practice, each wing version built comes out how it does anyway, and all builders tweak, scale or adapt shapes to fit their needs or technology.
What can be and sometimes is protected is the "design"as in appearance, logos, etc., via trademark.
So not really a concern in my opinion.

Tungsten's method -vacuum forming flimsy PET sheet molds- may work for a 4" 25cm^2 fin. At that scale, they are actually strong enough.
Would it work for a 8" 10cm^2+ fin? Not as well. For a 500-600+ cm^2 wing half? Not well at all.
Molds must be rigid to reproduce a shape correctly.
You could vacuum plastic film, a few mil, to a wing instead of waxing the wing, and then lay up a fiberglass mold over it. That way you would not worry that your mold would permanently stick to your friend's wing. Plenty of layers, starting with filler and light cloth, then thicker cloth, backed with a mother mold or big reinforcements. Like how they mold fiberglass boats, but simpler and miniature. You might want/need a mother mold to carry the mold, too. This process might give 1-20 faithful copies pulled from your mold before distorting or wear and tear gave issues. Your mileage may vary. But it is do-able, and probably done often.

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Re: Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:25 pm

I heard about a technique where you cover the wing in packing tape, make a plaster mold, then cut the mold into cross sections and use software to interpolate between cross sections. Either way, there's a lot of ways to skin a cat but I don't think the PET method will scale to a hydrofoil sized project.

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Re: Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby tahoedirk » Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:40 pm

Nice link, thanks.

I have made a number of molds using fix-it-all, like drywall mud, reinforced with fiberglass tape for drywall. Works well, but the finish is just ok unless you glass it. Good method for getting your design nailed down. Don't be afraid to copy something, I think everyone is doing it. IMO it is legit R&D I wish I had.

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Re: Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby TheJoe » Sat Oct 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Personally if I was to do a mold I would use silicon RTV it is a bit pricey but stupid amazing. You have to do 2 part mold with it so your first piece would be the silicone then a rigid or mother mold of fiberglass. The mat glass cloth would be the best for this. You would basically be building a super durable mold that is heat resistant that would leave a super smooth finish and last for a very long time.

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Re: Tungsten copycat method suitable for Wing copying?

Postby tahoedirk » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:25 pm

I was all ready to use a 2 part silicone or urethane product, but I could not figure out how to pull it off with less than 2 or 3 gallons. Also seemed difficult making the rigid part adjustable/flexible for fine tuning. These products look awesome, wish I had a couple 5 gallon bucketsfull on hand. Ended up with a traditional fiberglass mold


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