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Where to start?

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Zandman
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Where to start?

Postby Zandman » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:29 pm

I would like to start a build project for the winter. (and will not stop there!)

There is a ventilated space I can use, assume no tools but I'm ok to buy as I progress in my skills.

I've read many many hours here and elsewhere but I'm still lost!
There are so many techniques materials and tools that I do not know where to start...
I have no prior experience.

How would you recommend me to start (technique & learning resources? ) for an 135cm foil board (plate) with relatively high rocker(beginner friendly)?
Is it realistic target? if not, where should I start?

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Re: Where to start?

Postby socommk23 » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:54 pm

Clearwater hydrofoil! Great starting point for any home build.

Zandman
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Re: Where to start?

Postby Zandman » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:12 pm

Thanks, building a whole foil is an overkill for me.
My idea is to focus on the board only.
I did not find a board tutorial in their videos.

I've seen many other videos for boards but I have a gap on how to put the inserts where the foil is mounted?
Shall I use this method with epoxy? Will it hold or it is not strong enough for the foil/board connection?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBaznFxofmI

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downunder
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Re: Where to start?

Postby downunder » Tue Oct 09, 2018 7:29 am

Start with KISS.

I am quite the opposite, did not read anything simply b/c my approach is different. Tools are, of course, the same, but how one is using it is not.

On the Northern Hemisphere winter one would need a heated place, there is nothing worse then working in cold room. Expect long time for epoxy curing without a heat box. With a heat box though, do not burn your project or a house down ;) It is much better to build a silicone blanket for that, with a PID. Even than be careful.

You need to tell us first what is your project, otherwise there are too many variables.

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Re: Where to start?

Postby Zandman » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:40 am

Yes, as a first project I want to go as KISS as possible. Both materials and tools. (e.g. I'd rather wait for epoxy curing)

What I think of doing is:

1) Get 2 or 3 of sheets of wood sized 135x45cm
(2 or 3? How many mm? 3mm? What kind of wood? Where do I find it?)

2) Glue the sheets together, while drying use a 7x7cm square beam and the car to create a rocker

3) Cut a symmetric round/elliptic nose with a template and a saw and then sand the cut

4) Use fiberglass and epoxy at bottom side - Extra glass layers where the foil will mount
(Which epoxy? Which glass? How many layers? )

4.5) Wait to dry

5) Turn the bottom side down and pour extra epoxy at the rails - in the V formed between the dried fiberglass and the wood

5.5) Wait to dry

6) Do Steps 5 & 6 at the upper side

7) Use epoxy and salt at the upper side for grip

8 ) Drill 4x10mm holes for foil and fill with epoxy (using paper tape at the bottom to hold the epoxy)

9) Once the epoxy is dry, drill 6mm hole and use big washer on the upper side and nut at the bottom to hold the foil.

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Re: Where to start?

Postby plummet » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:35 am

Here's my build if you are interested.

viewtopic.php?f=199&t=2394150&p=1021330 ... d#p1021330

First of all decide what specs you want. Mast length, wing aspect ratio , size of wings, Wing profiles. Mast profile. mast length, fuse length, stabiliser size, profile. Attachement method.


Then sort out core material and reinforcement. Method of layup.


My advice is to make the rear wing so you shim the aoa. The ability to shim the stab can be the difference between a fantastic and terrible foil.

phpBB [video]

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Re: Where to start?

Postby downunder » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:45 am

Plummet is not reading, is he?

;)

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Re: Where to start?

Postby tmcfarla » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:10 am

Zandman wrote: Yes, as a first project I want to go as KISS as possible. Both materials and tools. (e.g. I'd rather wait for epoxy curing)

What I think of doing is:

1) Get 2 or 3 of sheets of wood sized 135x45cm
(2 or 3? How many mm? 3mm? What kind of wood? Where do I find it?)

2) Glue the sheets together, while drying use a 7x7cm square beam and the car to create a rocker

3) Cut a symmetric round/elliptic nose with a template and a saw and then sand the cut

4) Use fiberglass and epoxy at bottom side - Extra glass layers where the foil will mount
(Which epoxy? Which glass? How many layers? )

4.5) Wait to dry

5) Turn the bottom side down and pour extra epoxy at the rails - in the V formed between the dried fiberglass and the wood

5.5) Wait to dry

6) Do Steps 5 & 6 at the upper side

7) Use epoxy and salt at the upper side for grip

8 ) Drill 4x10mm holes for foil and fill with epoxy (using paper tape at the bottom to hold the epoxy)

9) Once the epoxy is dry, drill 6mm hole and use big washer on the upper side and nut at the bottom to hold the foil.
This all sounds pretty reasonable.

1.) 3 layers of 3mm plywood with a full deck pad should be enough flotation and strong. If you can find it, marine plywood like Baltic birch. Any plywood is probably fine though if you glass it. This will sit pretty low in the water, so consider painiting it a bright color.

2.) a gap filling glue like gorilla glue probably best for gluing them together. Plan on some spring back, so put in a bit more rocker than you want. Might take some experimentation to figure out what works.

4.) I don’t know, let’s say 2 layers of 4 oz fiberglass on top and bottom. Strips of unidirectional carbon fiber, a few inches wide, along the length of the board will add a lot of stifness and is cheap and easy to work with. West system epoxy 205 or 206 is available everywhere and good enough. I prefer system three epoxy as it is is a 1:2 mixture instead of 1:5. Fast epoxy in cold environments, slow in warm environments. The thicker the board, the less fiberglass you need, but you want a couple layers of epoxy for waterproofing anyways. Also, you don’t specify glassing the top, but glass the top too. 1 layer glass on top and bottom is a lot stronger than 2 layers on either top or bottom.

5.) not really sure what you mean here by “the V”. Honestly, I would just paint a few layers of epoxy on rails and leave it at that. You want them waterproof, but don’t need to strengthen them. Just brush a thick layer on the rails every time you do any epoxy work on the board. If you ding them too much, they might start taking on water, but you’ll probably want to build a new board by then anyways.

7.) just get a full deck pad, you’ll want the extra flotation with a wooden board anyways. Epoxy/salt is really nasty on skin if not done well. When drilling holes and filling with epoxy, you want the holes smaller than the washer you will use, can use large fender washer though. Also, epoxy tends to break down tape and leak out, so i like to drill through just to the layer of glass, but not through it, that way when you pour epoxy in it can’t leak out. Or just add extra tape and put something flat like a book under the holes.

9.) when re-drilling, make sure you don’t get off-center and drill wood. The epoxy is there for water proofing. Use stainless steel hardware, preferably 316 grade.

Extra notes- buy several cheap paint brushes, an epoxy squeegee and gloves. Epoxy is easiest to mix by weight with a kitchen scale, you need to be pretty close to the correct ratio for it to work right. Don’t try to mix tiny batches, as it is hard to get ratios right. Don’t try to mix huge batches because it will cure too fast and could start on fire. I would start with a 200 g batch of epoxy for one side, how much you’ll actually need depends on a lot of factors.

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Re: Where to start?

Postby Breze » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:01 pm

Hy Zandman. Where is your hometown?. In Germany you can buy paulownia at Bauhaus. Much lighter than baltic birch. Poplar is also light and cheap.

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Re: Where to start?

Postby Zandman » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:13 pm

Plummet: Thanks! yes I've already seen you and you were inspiration!

tmcfarla:
Many many thanks!! Very helpful post! Good point about deck and flotation
tmcfarla wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:10 am
5.) not really sure what you mean here by “the V”.
I mean that: https://youtu.be/qVcNdiaX0GE?t=694 at 11.35
but I got what you say and seems more straightforward with a brush !
Breze wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:01 pm
Hy Zandman. Where is your hometown?. In Germany you can buy paulownia at Bauhaus. Much lighter than baltic birch. Poplar is also light and cheap.
Ha! I just came back from hornbach where I went to check what is available!
But how the f*** is it called? Buche? Pappel?


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