Short lines on big kites

[adam17]

Hi guys

I have Cabrinha Switchblade 11m2 and 2 bars. I wonder if it makes sense to attach shorter lines to my second bar to use my 11m2 as an equivalent of 9m2 instead of buying another kite?
It has following advantages:
1. I don't need to buy a new kite but only new lines
2. I don't need to carry 2 kites wherever I go because I can replace smaller kite by a big one with a bar on shorter lines. Then I would only have to carry 2 bars instead of 2 kites. With a splitted board from Nobile I wouldn't need a quiver at all and could cover most of the wind range.
3. I feel more convenient on crowded spots due to shorter lines.

Do you see any disadvantages of running bigger kites on shorter lines?

If no, now the most important question - how to calculate the power of the kite? If I have 25m lines on 11m2 kite what would be the eqivalent line length to achieve the power of 9m2 kite? Is there a way to calculate it? Is there maybe a formula e.g. 3m shorter lines 1m2 kite less?

Regards
Adam

[tautologies]

Hi guys

I have Cabrinha Switchblade 11m2 and 2 bars. I wonder if it makes sense to attach shorter lines to my second bar to use my 11m2 as an equivalent of 9m2 instead of buying another kite?
It has following advantages:
1. I don't need to buy a new kite but only new lines
2. I don't need to carry 2 kites wherever I go because I can replace smaller kite by a big one with a bar on shorter lines. Then I would only have to carry 2 bars instead of 2 kites. With a splitted board from Nobile I wouldn't need a quiver at all and could cover most of the wind range.
3. I feel more convenient on crowded spots due to shorter lines.

Do you see any disadvantages of running bigger kites on shorter lines?

If no, now the most important question - how to calculate the power of the kite? If I have 25m lines on 11m2 kite what would be the eqivalent line length to achieve the power of 9m2 kite? Is there a way to calculate it? Is there maybe a formula e.g. 3m shorter lines 1m2 kite less?

Regards
Adam

That's not exactly how it works. Shorter lines will in general just generate less power when riding and sineing the kite. It'll make your kite feel more responsive and when you move it around it will generate less power, but static power will be more or less the same. For static pull line length only matter if there is more wind higher up...lets assume its the same. You cannot use an 11 as a 9 at all.

[Matteo V]

Shorter lines will in general just generate less power when riding relatively under powered.

Line length changes the distance across the wind window, not the power of the kite. Because of this shorter distance across the window, the kite pulls with maximum power (back of the window) for less time before it moves to the side of the window.

Or a similar way to look at it, is that the kite always flies with the same forward speed. But when you shorten the distance for it to travel, it seems to cross that given distance (or power zone) faster. But again, it is not flying faster, just crossing a shorter distance.


Long or short lines have their place, but no (non hydrofoil) kiter can effectively eliminate a kite size by using different line lengths in the 8-12m range.

[adam17]

I tried it myself and was able to ride 13m2 Ozone when everyone was using 8-9m2. All I did was to shorten the lines by 2 (so was using 12.5m lines).
I saw kite schools in several locations (e.g Terifa in Spain) using 12m2 kites to teach students on short lines in big winds. Sometimes they just halfed the lines and sometimes they even divided it by 4, so had 12m2 kite on 6m long lines when people riding on the water had 8m2 kites. So in the end it must pull less than on 25m lines, don't you think?

[Greenturtle]

I agree mostly with what others have already posted about the changed size of the window on long lines vs short and how that effects the performance of the kite.
However additionally I think a couple things:

I think that on short lines the kite flies further into the edge of window than can be accomplished on longer lines, thus reducing the static pull as well.

And generally speaking for most spots and conditions, the actual windspeed is greatly reduced the closer to the ground you are measuring it. So this too reduces power when using short lines.

Can you use an 11 as a 9 if on super short lines?
It would help quite a bit, but- Depends on the rider! Those with good power management ability do it without even changing line length. Others biff before even getting in the water.

[jumptheshark]

Of course you can. Is it worth it? No

An 11m in good 9m conditions is just never the right kite or everyone would scale lines all the time......they don’t.

Outside of racing It’s a pretty narrow range of widely used line lengths.

In short the answer, in my experience, is that it’s never a bad idea to get another kite! You’ll see what I mean when your 11m gets damaged before it blows for two weeks straight! 9m kicks ass on 11m anyway. If I could only have one, it would be 9.

Seriously tho, short lines on a big kite above its ideal range can’t even compare to the fun of a good 9m session.

[Matteo V]

An 11m in good 9m conditions is just never the right kite or everyone would scale lines all the time......they don’t.

Spot on, and put much simpler than I could have! And very much obvious with only a few extremely rare exceptions.


I personally use only 23m line sets across all my tube kites from 3.5m to 13.5m. My reasoning for this is:

1. I want to know where my kite will sit when I launch and land.
2. I want to adjust to kite size/windspeed only, and not add a 3rd variable to the equation (wind-window size).
3. Gear universality - so that when hiking in I need to only carry one bar (with backups a short walk away).
4. Window timing - related to #2, but separate enough to call it another reason - smaller or larger windows require a different timing for loops with respect to loop speed and dynamic change of direction of pull.

[PullStrings]

Get yourself a used 8m 2014 at good price
Put 22m lines on the bar you got...best way to go


Ikitesurf ad posted 3 wks ago in Charleston SC, USA

http://c.ikitesurf.com/classifieds/33860

[adam17]

Thanks guys, very interesting discussion.
I got your points!


Regards
Adam

[iriejohn]

It really is not very complicated.

A kite (wing) develops different amounts of lift (power) at different wind speeds.

Wind speed does decrease nearer to the surface, water in this case, but not as much as most people imagine - as is demonstrated by this graph.



For example, wind speed at 10m is about 88% of wind speed at 20m.

hth