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Learn a kiteloop

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pj sofine
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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby pj sofine » Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:39 pm

Just jump,pull the bar as hard as you can,just commit,land down wind and all will be fine.To many over think this move.You'll probably be disappointed as to how little pull you'll get from the majority of modern kites when you steer kite quickly,it will just pivot quickly.Remember when first learning to kitesurf how fast and out of control you felt when you first started to get up and riding,felt like a bat out of hell,really wasn't though!Same deal

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby misfit132 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:55 pm

pj sofine wrote:Just jump,pull the bar as hard as you can,just commit,land down wind and all will be fine.To many over think this move.You'll probably be disappointed as to how little pull you'll get from the majority of modern kites when you steer kite quickly,it will just pivot quickly.Remember when first learning to kitesurf how fast and out of control you felt when you first started to get up and riding,felt like a bat out of hell,really wasn't though!Same deal



Ok well I do random jump with normal speed when take off. Than I wait till my heighest jump, than I pull hard on the bar to make kiteloop as quick as i can... How about bar should be powered or half depowered while pulling hard on the bar? I did half of loop once at full speed when taking off, yeah it did hurt much...

So if im right:

1. Edging with normal speed (not underpowered not overpowered)
2. Jump and wait to reach highest heigh.
3. Before start falling down, pull hard on the bar to make quick kiteloop(depowered or powered?).
4. Point board downwind.

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby knotwindy » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:21 pm

bar powered and
if powered up properly on a mid size jump, pull the bar just before you reach the top of the jump

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Eduardo
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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby Eduardo » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:01 am

right - and the two common mistakes are

1. loop too early. this takes the power of the jump and combines it with the power of the loop in some crazy non-linear way and leads to spectacular wipeouts.

2. loop too slow. this generates more power with more time sending the kite through the power zone and also decreases the chance that you'll get the kite around in time and also with all the power you'll probably be knocked of balance any way.

cglazier explains it very well although I'm not a fan of fishpoling or throwing in a backroll while learning but that is personal preference as I've heard others say that helped them.

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby dragnfly » Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:57 am

I'm aware this is a ressurrection of an old post, but I thought better this than starting up yet another how to loop thread.

So - I'm confidently doing kiteloops with anything from 7m to 11m - but I think i'm guilty of doing slightly girly ones, which I think might actually be making things worse for me, resulting in really heavy landings.

I'm not interested in megaloops btw.

I've been doing a normal boost as high as possible, but this has involved slightly redirecting the kite back through 12, before really committing to the loop at the apex of the jump. This seems to be resulting in the kite turning slower than I'd like because - it is having to, a) change direction again after the redirect, and b) rotate through more than 360deg, so I end up very rarely getting any kind of 'catch' at all and hit the water really hard which is f*cking up my back. I'm thinking that it would loop much better and faster if I keep it yanked in from the start, without the redirect at the apex, as it would all be done in 1 much smoother arc - but it seems a bit scarier.

What is the best point to really pull in hard on my back hand? Should I pull in hard from the start (at about the same time as popping) and keep it pulled in, or boost & leave the kite up around 12 for a bit 1st to get some altitude, and then pull in really hard?

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby longwhitecloud » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:59 am

Check out video 20 of 25 HERE! > > > http://waterstart.tv

Having had so many friends with snapped ACLs/ broken ankles/ smashed ankles via kiteloops over the years - going hard out learning them... I made the above video with this in mind..

Before you kiteloop in the air, learn about your kite looping in the water at least!

best first kiteloop airs are non backroll /frontroll ones to start with because you can actually see what is happening! The later the loop in light winds with air loops the less risk... build up not hard out down and .... snap!!! there will come a point when (air kiteloops) commit is super important but at least have an idea of your kites behave firstly.. :-0

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby Do-it » Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:30 pm

Jump..... pull back hand....land....you probably won't land the first 10.

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby edt » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:32 pm

dragnfly wrote:What is the best point to really pull in hard on my back hand? Should I pull in hard from the start (at about the same time as popping) and keep it pulled in, or boost & leave the kite up around 12 for a bit 1st to get some altitude, and then pull in really hard?


there's four kinds of loops, there's the megaloops style (even if you dont jump high it's the same kind of loop), there's the helicopter loop and there's the low kiteloop which you use for a darkslide or hand drag.

Then there's the fourth kind of loop which you should never do and it's the fall down and hurt yourself loop. That's what you're doing don't do those any more!

for the megaloop style loop you want to pull hard when you are going up. It depends on the wind strength when you can initiate your loop. The lighter the wind the sooner you have to start looping. In pretty light wind you are going to pull hard immediately as soon as you get off the water you start pulling and you won't get very high in the air at all, you'll just get a yank downwind. If the wind is better you can wait a bit and the strong the wind the higher you can go before you start pulling and the kite still catches you.

For the helicopter loop do a normal jump. Wait until you feel yourself start to come down. Then loop. The kite will spin in the air like a helicopter and you won't get any yank at all. This is the easiest and safest kiteloop to do.

For the low kiteloop instead of using the kite to jump off the water you use pop. You pop off the water just a few inches, start looping and you'll have the kite loop and you'll hang just over the water. You need to get the timing right for this, but it's pretty safe because you don't jump high.

The bad kiteloop is when you are in medium wind and you start pulling for the kiteloop as you are going up, but there isn't enough energy in the kite for it to come all the way around. The kite will never finish the loop and it will drop you every time. Doesn't matter where you put the kite how hard you pull, the problem here is you are trying to get a megaloop style loop where you use the kite to pull you up in the air but there's just not enough wind to do both a loop and get that yank. You either have to wait for more wind, pull way sooner and resign yourself to a low kiteloop or wait longer and do a gentle helicopter loop. It's all about the timing of the loop. so yeah you are right you can pull right away in medium wind. Or you can wait and do a helicopter loop. It's those inbetween loops that you want to stay away from, halfway to megaloop, halfway to helicopter loop, too high in the air to land safety that's not where you want to be.
Last edited by edt on Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby jeromeL » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:33 pm

Do-it wrote:Jump..... pull back hand....land....you probably won't land the first 10.


ahah, that's how I am learning them. Now I kind of know what I do right or wrong on each trial...
Just started learning those in september. I have had a few megaloop experience based on what my buddies told me. Probably went up 25/30 feet and traveled downwind 100/150 feet on 1 loop. I land maybe 1 powered kiteloop out of 4. Maybe butt check 2 out of 4. 1 out of 4 I wipe out, lol

I followed those steps to learn them which is pretty safe, up to last step
1) surface downloop, kiteloop. Those I did the 3rd session after I learned to stay upwind, pretty straightforward.
2) landing a jump with downloop: after you reach apex, as you come down start pulling front hand. The kite should be behind you after take off so as you pull fronthand the kite goes to 12 then dive down, then you land. If you pull hard and steer hard the kite loop more or less fast. Depends whether you want to land with speed or not. It is pretty safe to pull front hand anytime while coming down. Sometime you land when kite is diving down, sometime you land after kite finish downloop. Doesn't matter, its all good.
3) kiteloop on the way down: exactly same feel as downloop. You boost high. kite is back so redirect first overhead and a bit forward. at that point you should hit apex and start to swing forward. Here you pull trigger and kiteloop with backhand. The kite is forward so it first goes to 12 then does a full kiteloop. You land in forward direction.

Once you master 2 and 3 it is super useful. Pretty much on all my jump i either land with downloop or kiteloop. It depends how high I go and if kite is to the left or right. If it is to the right I pull left hand, if it is to the left I pull right hand hard and sheet in!
It is also very useful to recover from a rotation during a jump. If I start going in a front rotation i will kiteloop, that keeps the kite in front of me and pulll me out of rotation.

4) first mini jump kiteloop. can be 12 or 9 mid powerd. so like 17/18 on 12 and 20/22 on 9.
you send kite to 12 slow, try to pop to jump without using much of the kite power, if you feel you are in control and stable in the air try to pull back hand and sheet in all the way as soon as you leave the water. You won't go high and will get a good feel for kiteloop.

5) then you can do the same boosting. I would say try first in 20-22 knots on 9m then 25, finally 30 knots...
I think the right way to do it is to sheet in all the way and crank bar really hard while sheeting in. That will keep kite fast and tight. then slowly crank less and sheet in less to do bigger loop.

Main mistakes I am currently making.
* loop to late, too close to apex. The kite usually would stall when it climbs back up as most of the tension is gone. It is bettter to loop while still climbing to keep tension.
A lot of people say to loop at apex. that works only if you go high enough... It depends how hard you pull the bar though. Unless they mean my step 3) which are heliloop. Kite loop from 12.
* I don't sheet in enough while pulling bar. Usually i turn the bar halfway so not fishpole style (90 degree) more like 50/60 degree. usually I sheet in 90% of the way but I tend to loose focus and maybe sheet in less than I should... What happens is the kite makes a huge loop and start to climb up as you fall down, I am usually short a few feet to land correctly...

My next step is to sheet in and crank the bar a little more to make tighter loop at first. Then I will try to make slower / bigger loop.
Also try to loop early enough to keep tension in lines. The problem I have is that if I loop too early usually I am not stable enough and get pulled in a rotation by the loop. I find that by the time I am stable and facing kite I am already pretty high... Anyway I need to have a cleaner take off with a nice pop then it should get easier.

There are a lot of variable:
* where is kite prior to pulling trigger: overhead, front or back?
* when to pull trigger: while still going up, at apex, or going down
* how much to sheet in
* how much to crank bar.
there are multiple solution depending on what you want to do.

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Re: Learn a kiteloop

Postby edt » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:37 pm

i dont know who is saying loop at the apex. If you loop after the apex you get a helicopter loop. If you loop before the apex you get megaloop. If you loop at the apex you get the worst of all worlds. You don't get a big yank like a megaloop and there's a good chance the kite won't catch you


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