I should be more specific with that claim.Starsky wrote:15-20 degree difference! That's a shit load.
Easy low tech way to get an idea would be on snow.
same rider, same skis/board, same day.
Pick a start point and ride pointing as high as possible.
Start at same point and do it again after swapping kites.
Compare tracks....
Or use a GPS and include speed in the comparison.
I made this way. I felt or saw no difference in height. that was why I asked. I will try more. but I do not think it differs much on ice with skis.i have à chrono 11 v2 and à best TS 17 ..Starsky wrote:15-20 degree difference! That's a shit load.
Easy low tech way to get an idea would be on snow.
same rider, same skis/board, same day.
Pick a start point and ride pointing as high as possible.
Start at same point and do it again after swapping kites.
Compare tracks....
Or use a GPS and include speed in the comparison.
this is actually not a very good way of thinking. It's not the degrees you count in a race but VMG or velocity made good. For instance if you are going 20 knots at a 45 degree angle upwind towards a mark directly upwind that's 14 knots VMG. If you are going 36 knots at 23 degrees upwind you are about 10-20 degrees lower but the VMG is exactly 14 knots.Mossy 757 wrote: is that equates to 15-20 degrees difference overall throughout a race given what I've seen in my admittedly limited experience over the last 2 years.
edt, if we were standing face to face discussing this we'd be on the same page, I know what you're saying and I think I just explained my position wrong. I know all about VMG, been sailing for 25 years. At the end of the day, inflatables aren't winning races and that's very easily measurable with just a stopwatch. I'm not sure why that is, it seems like you could make a fast inflatable if you wanted to...I wonder if there will ever be a "next generation" racing LEI to supplant the current dominance of paragliding inspired ram airs. I for one would love to see thatedt wrote:this is actually not a very good way of thinking. It's not the degrees you count in a race but VMG or velocity made good. For instance if you are going 20 knots at a 45 degree angle upwind towards a mark directly upwind that's 14 knots VMG. If you are going 36 knots at 23 degrees upwind you are about 10-20 degrees lower but the VMG is exactly 14 knots.Mossy 757 wrote: is that equates to 15-20 degrees difference overall throughout a race given what I've seen in my admittedly limited experience over the last 2 years.
what's better, going 20 knots at 45 degrees or 36 knots at 23 degrees? No difference you get to the mark at exactly the same time. 45 degrees is 12 degrees higher than 23 degrees but it means nothing without specifying how fast you do it in.
What you need to do is look at the polar diagram then you figure out what the best upwind angle is for VMG, and then you can calculate how much faster the foil kite is to the mark. The foil kite can go faster at a higher upwind angle than the tube kite can at the a lower angle. How much exactly? In a race one or two percent difference is enormous.
looking back at the formula results, 2015 everyone was on foils but i see in 2014 someone was on an rrd race kite they finished next to last.
so . . . maybe 5% faster? 5% is about the difference you expect from 1st in the race to the last finisher. 5% is a lot in race.