Flysurfer Sonic 2

[Toby]

heading towards off season in Brazil I need power for 15-20 knots...my 18 Rebel is ok, but not to film new crazy tricks which demand more and more hangtime in the air...with 18-25 I am fine with the Rebel, with less I waste time.

[kitexpert]

Why anyone bothers to pump such large kites I just don't understand and for such poor performance.

You must pay over 2k for complete Speed or Sonic, it is one reason why not everyone has them. Other is half priced LEI turns much faster (more joy to fly) and is usually safer and easier to handle. LEI will not lose its tune and at least I have had no leaks with my 17m kite during last to years. And I use it quite a lot, year around.

I wouldn't say performance is poor either. Most modern 17m LEI's are quite near 15m Speeds. And like I said they turn much faster and with LEI it is easier to do small tricks and have fun in low winds. Of course upwind and hangtime is better with foil kites, but to have very slow big foil in low winds is boring.

With new pumps and big valves pumping is not that big work at all.

I believe Sonic2 is a great kite for what I've read for users. I've used sonic fr few times and had a bit mixed feeligs. Performance was very good but stability, wingtips and harsh backstall I didn't like. I felt a bit sorry for some guys who bought them, had problems and now with improved new model lose a lot of value when trying to sell them.

[Toby]

Why is a slow kite boring?
In your World maybe, not in mine.

[kitexpert]

Why is a slow kite boring?
In your World maybe, not in mine.

This slowness is very relative thing. If you say Rebel18 is a slow kite for your windspeeds, your weight and skills, you have very different definition of "slow" than it is for many others. I meant 19m or 21m Speed for 160lbs at 8kn - that is SLOW and kiting then is only park and ride and struggling to keep ground. For example downlooping for transition is so slow you must start steering seconds before turning itself, it just feels bad after getting used to faster kites. If not pulling the bar very much there is a real risk to hit water with the wingtip and then troubles begin...

And if wind rises a bit kiting becomes heavy, no matter how they praise their high wind abilities.

I rather wait until it is 9kn and use 17m or smaller LEI. I don't have much against working the kite, and 17m LEI's low end is not bad at all. I've been out with TT many times without whitecaps and not missed big foils a bit. But now hf is making this kind of discussion out of date anyway...

For snowkite I see smaller race foil kites very interesting. They are fun to fly like good LEI's (or even better, more aggressive) and have much more performance. But if it is gusty I take a LEI, I don't want to punish myself for nothing. For snow I don't see small race foils at all high wind kites, but wide range enthusiastic user kites. There is unique sporty feel in them.

I would swap my 17m LEI to 15m Sonic2 at once, but I'm afraid it is not going to happen... No doubt it is a very fine kite, but not for me at the moment.

[evan]

Slow turning rate, yes. But in power delivery and straight line speed a racefoil is very reactive, fast and more powerfull than any tube.

[windrider1]

right when u said that the foil kites were slow and boring compared to an LEI in the same low wind i knew you didnt really have alot of experience on them. all kites are a little slower in 8 knts but an LEI is definately not more fun in those winds. also in 8 knts u can actually do tricks with a good 15m or 18m race foil no need for a 21m that's an ultra low wind kite fir big guys to park and cruise in 6knts .Race kites like the sonic , chrono and so on are advanced foil kites and dont make a first beginner kite for someone they are for people with previous foil kite experience who will knw how to handle and tune them. i always recommend people get a speed series instead however I do agree the prices are outrageous.

Why anyone bothers to pump such large kites I just don't understand and for such poor performance.

You must pay over 2k for complete Speed or Sonic, it is one reason why not everyone has them. Other is half priced LEI turns much faster (more joy to fly) and is usually safer and easier to handle. LEI will not lose its tune and at least I have had no leaks with my 17m kite during last to years. And I use it quite a lot, year around.

I wouldn't say performance is poor either. Most modern 17m LEI's are quite near 15m Speeds. And like I said they turn much faster and with LEI it is easier to do small tricks and have fun in low winds. Of course upwind and hangtime is better with foil kites, but to have very slow big foil in low winds is boring.

With new pumps and big valves pumping is not that big work at all.

I believe Sonic2 is a great kite for what I've read for users. I've used sonic fr few times and had a bit mixed feeligs. Performance was very good but stability, wingtips and harsh backstall I didn't like. I felt a bit sorry for some guys who bought them, had problems and now with improved new model lose a lot of value when trying to sell them.

[kitexpert]

right when u said that the foil kites were slow and boring compared to an LEI in the same low wind i knew you were just making things up and didnt really have alot of experience on them.

I said "I rather wait until it is 9kn ..." I do have a lot of experience of all kites, all types, many makes and most sizes. But I've not ever used a C-Quad

in 8 knts u can actually do tricks with a good 15m or 18m race foil no need for a 21m that's an ultra low wind kite fir big guys

I agree fully for the last part but my experience with chrono and sonic fr didn't suggest very much playfulness in low winds. It was more like collecting the speed and then park-and-ride. But if someone can have fun and do tricks fine for me.

[foilholio]

heading towards off season in Brazil I need power for 15-20 knots...my 18 Rebel is ok, but not to film new crazy tricks which demand more and more hangtime in the air...with 18-25 I am fine with the Rebel, with less I waste time.

Wait till you are on an 18m foil in 25knots, it is out of control keep that down wind clear! lol. No seriously keep it clear, you'll kill yourself. nah the releases work well on foils no need to die from a spinning mess.





As to the people (person lol) (self embellished expert lol) complaining about slow kites, well they just need to get more experience riding. It's not what the kites are doing but what the rider is. If you want to fly quick kites you are in the wrong sport, may I suggest stunt kites and don't forget a tail so people can really ooo and arr at those turns lol.
.
Maybe that's a new market, tails for kitesurf kites, so people are distracted from that boring riding below lol.

Foils expensive? but the cheapest kites are foils? Maybe you are confusing that waterfoils for a long time were only serviced by basically a single company. That's economics of supply and demand not a cost issue. Sure Foils are more complicated but the labor is about 10c an hour. You are looking at at most a few 10's of dollars a kite.

[Toby]

While there is a need for fast kites, like kiteloops or waves, there is also a need for slower kites.
Something people don't understand until they are pushing for more tricks.

The most stupid thing is when a beginner says he wants a fast kite, and then trying the first tricks.

Such a classic, that many get hurt by trying the Backroll first time and their kite does half a loop.
Just few days ago a female friend of mine got injured this way...for sure she listens to me now and is slowing down her kites to start her progression.

[kitexpert]

complaining about slow kites, well they just need to get more experience riding

Whos talking? Don't forget foilholio I have many years and hundreds of hours (if not thousands) more experience riding and using kites than you

And your knowledge of kite design or how they work is not very complete, I must say. Even though I have tried to explain and teach, perhaps more than I should have.

If you want to fly quick kites you are in the wrong sport,

Why should I use slow kites if there is faster and funnier to fly kites around? You sound like novice who is too scared to do anything with his kite: kite sits still in the window, then park-and-ride and after a while slow and cautious transition kite at the zenith and ass sinking to water...

No. My goal is to use smallest kite possible, loop it and slice it through the window and ride fast. Even for jumps I don't like or need big foils. Chrono18 was a kind of ridiculous: I didn't get too much height but floated very slowly downwind. It feels much more exciting to get ripped of from water by 8-10m LEI, straigth up and then down, usually with downloop landing.

And if wind is low I'm fine with 17m LEI and wouldn't change it to for example Pansh with equal pull. But to high end race kite like Sonic2 I would, even though it turns slower.