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North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

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mr moon
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North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby mr moon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:47 pm

I'm really stoked about my Dyno 15m 2015.

I think its lightness in the air, turning, bar pressure, wind range, speed and hangtime performance are just hard to equal for any other inflatable kite out there.

All good until a recent light wind session on my nugget CSC planning at around 7-9kn, I' andm a heavy rider (!).

This is what happened:

STAGE 1. On a huge wind lull the kite drops in deep waters, sitting on the LE. I immediately try to bring it to the edge of window either side but it's not having it, it just doesn't want to initiate the rotation to relaunch. Wind at this point was marginal.

STAGE 2. Catch a tiny gust of breeze, I manage to start relaunch, but half its way up the kite backstalls falling on the water leading edge up.

STAGE 3. At this stage my effort of pulling the front lines is useless and the kite starts filling up with water also due to the fact that the wide center part of the canopy is strutless so it doesn't float and tends to sink.

STAGE 4. The kite sits half in the water not responding to any line inputs, game over.

I don't have any 5ht line relaunch experience, but I now assume that at STAGE 3 I should have pulled the 5th line to bring the LE towards me making the kite sitting on it and then rotating it by pulling a back line to go back to relaunch position waiting for the wind to pick up?

I certainly can't ask such a sophisticated kite to perform on the water, but I've heard other people talking about the nearly impossible water relaunch of the big Dynos in light wind, that's why more and more people have moved to the Juice.

I personally never liked it easy, and I never been afraid to learn. So if this the price to pay for such a high perfomance machine, well ok... But perhaps I have done something very stupid that I make the whole situation worse?

Open to tips, criticisms and keen to learn ;)

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby dylan* » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:03 pm

Sounds like there is not much you can do, most kites won't relaunch unless the wind is a bit stronger than that.

The 5th line technique (same as 4 line technique pulling the opposite center line) is just to force the kite to rotate. If you get the kite to lie backward a bit (not on the water, but just angled back) while pulling on one of the rear lines, it will force the kite to rotate and start to stand up on the wingtip. It's really easy to get the kite to fall backward into the water if you hold it too long in this position, so you have to be careful and start letting the front line(s) slide out of your hand as it begins rolling over.

One other thing that helps is adding line tension by swimming straight upwind with your legs. Just don't do it for too long so you get tired and won't be able to swim in if needed.

But 7-9 knots, I don't think you will find any LEI that will relaunch anyway, need to get it in a good position and wait for a gust.

mr moon
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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby mr moon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:34 pm

That's probably what I should have done, wait in a good position... instead I was trying hard the relaunch cause I was drifting with the current

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:45 pm

Current does not make any difference - if you are powered the same when riding, the relaunch will be the very same no matter if 10 knots up or downwind current :naughty:

I also think you are expecting too much in terms if relaunching such a big and performing kite that is not foil specific :wink:

8) Peter

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby mr moon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:42 pm

Hi Peter, I was only referring to the current as I was drifting alongside the coast with the kite in the water in no wind.. basically I was water powered instead of wind powered. Yes it's not fair to demand water-powered control to a Dyno :rollgrin:

But my doubt is more about what could have done in STAGE 3, as I'm pretty sure I should have pulled the 5th line and having the kite rolling on its LE...

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby knotwindy » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:52 pm

Can the Dyno be reverse launched? Never rode one so no idea but lots of kites can be if you still have the board for resistance. Although maybe not in that light of wind?

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:28 pm

mr moon wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:42 pm
Hi Peter, I was only referring to the current as I was drifting alongside the coast with the kite in the water in no wind.. basically I was water powered instead of wind powered. Yes it's not fair to demand water-powered control to a Dyno :rollgrin:

But my doubt is more about what could have done in STAGE 3, as I'm pretty sure I should have pulled the 5th line and having the kite rolling on its LE...

I have had a 13 m2 Dyno from that time too, and found that the only way I could relaunch, was to avoid getting it up on the tip in really light wind (used it for hydrofoiling)

Meaning, just like you did, but when it is about to go on its trailing edge, you pull the frontlines really hard, and try to control with one rear line to get it "level" with the water, as otherwise it will not go straight up which is the only way (my experiences at least)

And you are right, if it first sits too deep in the water on the TE, it gets "sucked" down and you are often toast.
So the trick is to keep it just above or in the waterlevel on (pulling) its frontlines, without having it leave the water before it is level, as then it will just turn itself around LE down again :(

It can be reverse launched indeed, I have only done that on land, only way to launch in marginal winds, and even here it can be tricky as the front bridle/line could easily wrap around the tip, bugger when that happened :roll:

So I dont think it is an option in really light wind to reverse it up, somehow it require more wind was my findings.

Dont know if you can use my experiences at all, but that is how I found it to work with the older Dyno.

Get it around TE down, keep tension on both frontlines so it does not suck down, and pull it up on its frontlines when dead straight :thumb:

8) Peter

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby mr moon » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:01 pm

Thanks for your tips mate.

...In fact that was exactly what I did. I was yanking those front lines with all my might, but in marginal wind (it was a huge lull) the big boy would just not go up or stay above water. Certainly the lack of central strut only helped collecting water in the canopy, sinking completely the TE :-?

I always reverse relaunch my foils on snow, but a big 15m dyno in hardly any wind was out of question.

I think the main problem with this kite is the ultra thin + extra long LE with the lack of central strut which sort of makes it too bendy and not round and solid enough in profile to help initiate the rotation force on the tip.

I guess it must be the price to pay for its hangtime / gliding skills??

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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby Bushflyr » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:51 am

These guys have pretty much covered it, but to reiterate, high aspect kites take more wind to roll up on a tip. Big kites take more wind to roll up on a tip. Swim upwind hard to generate a bit more apparent wind on the kite. If the kite simply won't get up on a tip reverse launching is your only other option. Once it goes down in the water on the TE and floods it's pretty much game over. :(

In light wind it's absolutely critical to keep the kite out of the water, finesse on the bar so you don't stall it and lots of downloops are your best friends.

mr moon
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Re: North Dyno 2015 NO water relaunch?

Postby mr moon » Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:07 am

It sounds like I tried all the tricks in the book then :roll:

I still think that my critical mistake was not to pull the 5th line when the kite fell on its TE in front of me. I would have prevented it from sinking and it would have sat again on its LE floating...

Yes I've also tried to swim backwards, but the current was strong and the kite started to dive pretty fast in front of me :-?

I'm not a pro but I do have a pretty decent bar feel, refined it from years of flying foils in marginal winds on the mountains... But there is no sinking factor up there ;)


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