Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
LetsFlyaKite
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:55 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Style: Aggressive
Gear: Nothing Yet
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Hawaii

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:13 pm

Bille wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:18 pm
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:52 pm
Bille wrote:
Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:00 pm
@ LetsFlyaKite

It's not the message ; it's the messenger .

...

Bille
Oooooo, wow people are mad at me....

I'm just like anyone else on this forum bille. I know you are pissed at me right now for shooting down your sorry idea about how a carbon fiber stunt kite is better than an inflatable, but get over it.
...
Your memory is Bad :

You sent me a PM saying that you were just fucking with me , about that carbon shit, and (All is Good)
THEN
two days later Ya must have forgot, and flamed on me for no reason , (other than Ya can't be trusted).

Did you Really just say, that Ya never disrespected anyone on this forum ? Seriously ; you
really think that ??

Bille
Yes everything was going good, and I never flamed you for no reason. Maybe you took my advice as flaming, because you're the sensitive type. Which I can see that, because you seem like a very fragile person who cracks at the slightest hint of critisizm.

I can't help you man, and if there's a problem we either need to buy you a plane ticket so you can fly over here and fight me, or we can talk this out in a private message. I don't have a problem here, and whatever kind of negative thoughts you have in your own mind that's causing all this hate and making you mad, it needs to stop. I don't even know what I did that was so offensive.

Maybe I'll buy you a plane ticket one day and you can come down here and chill with me and my homies on my boat and do nothing but drink and go kiteboarding all day. And you will see for yourself that I am a very cool guy who just doesn't take any crap from anyone.

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby Matteo V » Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:20 pm
It's his life, let him figure out what to do with it.
Yes, we were there several posts ago. I am sure he has figured out which advice to take. He could have taken mine, yours, or anyone other respondents, and that was the point of multiple responses. I am sure he easily deemed the most sensible course to take a while ago and is in the process of finding a kite or two.

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:20 pm
Rich kiters buy nothing but the newest equipment, and they never have to worry about repairs because they either buy new kites or have the shop fix them. Well that aint me....

I am starting to see the pattern to your arguments. You create a new statement that is obviously true, in an attempt to mask your previous statement that was proved wrong or where another option was given. Things keep changing in your head. This is how you go on never admitting that you were wrong. Really look hard at what you did here. You may be doing it without knowing it. I guess you could call this a subconscious "straw man".

The standard recommendation is buy your first two kites new, not new all the time. I personally have not bought new since closeout 2013 kites in 2015. Nor would I recommend any kiter buy new, unless they have the means. And if you will only "have money in the bank" if you buy used, then you do not have the means to buy new and still have money in the bank.

Of the 16 tube kites I have or have gone through (worn out but still own, warranty) I purchased,

First 2 new
7 closeouts (anywhere from $250 to $799 kite only brand new, and 1 did have an issue that was warrantied)
5 used (not much less than closeouts for cost, and only one that DID NOT have issues - but happily dealt with some, others not so happily)
1 warranty replacement
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:20 pm
I also crash a lot, but you know what? I keep my kite in the air when it happens.
That is good advice to give to a beginner! And if he crashes the kite too, would you say "his heart was not really in it to begin with"? Your above statement is idiotic to the point of me questioning whether it is even true for you. The OP is not an advanced kiter like you(?) or me. He is a beginner that will crash his kite. I fly a kite on the ocean that will rip to shreds if I drop it once in the surf. I too have not dropped this kite for 2 years in the surf. But 2 years ago, it did go in the surf and get a small canopy tear about 4cm long. If I gave that same kite to a beginner in flat water on a perfect day, it would come not back in one piece, or at least it would have about a meter of repair to do to the canopy.


And LetsFlyaKite............you have my support.

iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1243
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: West Sussex
Style: None
Gear: This 'n that
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: South coast, UK

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby iriejohn » Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:37 pm

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:20 pm
Rich kiters buy nothing but the newest equipment, and they never have to worry about repairs because they either buy new kites or have the shop fix them. Well that aint me....
Life's a bitch and then you die. Be happy. :-)

User avatar
LetsFlyaKite
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:55 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Style: Aggressive
Gear: Nothing Yet
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Hawaii

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
I am starting to see the pattern to your arguments. You create a new statement that is obviously true, in an attempt to mask your previous statement that was proved wrong or where another option was given. Things keep changing in your head. This is how you go on never admitting that you were wrong. Really look hard at what you did here. You may be doing it without knowing it. I guess you could call this a subconscious "straw man".
I don't get it, how am I wrong? There is nothing wrong with what I've said, I just feel that my way is better for a begginer who is going to thrash his kite. With a little bit of knowlege, that he will probably get later on anyway, he can make an educated decision when buying used gear. Not everyone around here has a million dollars in the bank.
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
That is good advice to give to a beginner! And if he crashes the kite too, would you say "his heart was not really in it to begin with"? Your above statement is idiotic to the point of me questioning whether it is even true for you. The OP is not an advanced kiter like you(?) or me. He is a beginner that will crash his kite. I fly a kite on the ocean that will rip to shreds if I drop it once in the surf.
So you've never kept your kite in the air when you fall? You should try it sometime, because it will save wear and tear on your equipment. And a noob should not be riding in the surf, but that is at their own descresion, just like everything else in kiteboarding is...

And lets get this straight, if someone quits because their gear is wrecked, wouldn't you say their heart and soul isn't in it? I don't get how that's idiotic. When someone keeps on pushing even though they have wrecked gear or injuries, then yes, that is when their heart and soul is into the sport. I don't get how you cannot understand that...
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
I too have not dropped this kite for 2 years in the surf. But 2 years ago, it did go in the surf and get a small canopy tear about 4cm long. If I gave that same kite to a beginner in flat water on a perfect day, it would come not back in one piece, or at least it would have about a meter of repair to do to the canopy.
That's why you patch up all your tears or don't buy kites with tears in them. Like I've said a million times already, look for any leaks or tears when you buy.

It feels like I'm having a discussion with a 2 year old right now...

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby Matteo V » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm

Whoahh! "Strawman Hat Trick".......

Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
I am starting to see the pattern to your arguments. You create a new statement that is obviously true, in an attempt to mask your previous statement that was proved wrong or where another option was given. Things keep changing in your head. This is how you go on never admitting that you were wrong. Really look hard at what you did here. You may be doing it without knowing it. I guess you could call this a subconscious "straw man".
Let me apply my above statement to your most recent post.
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
I don't get it, how am I wrong? There is nothing wrong with what I've said, I just feel that my way is better for a begginer who is going to thrash his kite. With a little bit of knowlege, that he will probably get later on anyway, he can make an educated decision when buying used gear. Not everyone around here has a million dollars in the bank.
The "not everyone has a million dollars in the bank" statement is true, but not the argument that I posing. This true statement is something that you continue to repeatedly refer to when faced with the opposing argument. The opposing argument that you need to refute is that, "A new kite will have a warranty (worth money), will not have been previously abused or improperly repaired (worth money too), will fly correctly and if not - be warrantied, and will be at the peak of it's resistance to abuse (more valuable than money to a beginner). Specifically, referencing it's resistance to abuse, a new kite will not spend as much time (and money) getting repaired because of the likely beginner mistakes everyone makes on the water. This means more time on the water for the beginner with a new kite, and more money saved in the long run on those first two kites." Please take the above argument and present evidence against it. If you can present convincing evidence showing the above is not true, you will have refuted the argument and won. But continually presenting a "straw man" against this argument makes your argument seem indefensible.

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
With a little bit of knowlege, that he will probably get later on anyway, he can make an educated decision when buying used gear.
And even if you do not comprehend the straw man references, could you clarify the above statement's applicability in this situation. I think we may have a time line issue here. By that I mean, we are talking about a beginner in this situation...no? He will specifically NOT HAVE the chance to get this experience before the purchase of his first few kites......right? Actually I completely agree with your above statement and it even supports my argument for buying new kites at first. I am thinking you may have mistyped this sentence, actually meaning something else. If not, then you agree with my position that a beginner does not have the capability to evaluate used gear at the point of first purchasing gear. Thus new kites at first is a good idea.

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
That is good advice to give to a beginner! And if he crashes the kite too, would you say "his heart was not really in it to begin with"? Your above statement is idiotic to the point of me questioning whether it is even true for you. The OP is not an advanced kiter like you(?) or me. He is a beginner that will crash his kite. I fly a kite on the ocean that will rip to shreds if I drop it once in the surf. Paragraph continues in original post but is cut here by LFK.
So you've never kept your kite in the air when you fall? You should try it sometime, because it will save wear and tear on your equipment. And a noob should not be riding in the surf, but that is at their own descresion, just like everything else in kiteboarding is...
Matteo V wrote:
Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:18 pm
This is the sentence follows in the original paragraph and is linked to the previous sentence but is split from it to present another strawman. I too have not dropped this kite for 2 years in the surf. But 2 years ago, it did go in the surf and get a small canopy tear about 4cm long. If I gave that same kite to a beginner in flat water on a perfect day, it would come not back in one piece, or at least it would have about a meter of repair to do to the canopy.
That's why you patch up all your tears or don't buy kites with tears in them. Like I've said a million times already, look for any leaks or tears when you buy.
This shows that you are an intelligent person and a capable debater. To split my paragraph (linked ideas) into 2 parts is something that I would never think of. It is an excellent debate technique when arguing form a position of weakness if you do not get caught. But it is a strawman none the less. I never suggested that an inexperienced kiter give it a go in the surf. You split the quote right before I moved on to the fact that, while I kite old gear in the surf at my experience level, a beginner would destroy that gear on flatwater. The last statement is the one you need to refute, not claiming that I am saying a beginner give it a go in the surf. - I must say you have impressed me with this strawman. It was not hard to detect since I was looking for it, but most on this forum glance over long posts like yours and mine and never give them the scrutiny required to detect an out of context quote splice.

The last statement in the above by LFK is not really a strawman. It is an obviously true statement that is changing the argument to "how to buy used kites and/or repair them" that should be a completely separate thread. No one has really given any indication that they want to discuss this line of thinking. Rather, the debate is about having old gear that you have to fix (cheaper initially), vs having newer gear that you do not have to fix (more expensive initially). Debating old vs new is the subject. And given that it has been established the OP is a beginner, that also establishes that the OP is not capable of determining whether the used gear they are examining is in good condition or bad condition.

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
And lets get this straight, if someone quits because their gear is wrecked, wouldn't you say their heart and soul isn't in it? I don't get how that's idiotic. When someone keeps on pushing even though they have wrecked gear or injuries, then yes, that is when their heart and soul is into the sport. I don't get how you cannot understand that...
Which brings us to the third straw man. The argument is not about perseverance, the argument is about a beginner having a positive initial experience while on the path to just getting upwind. Simply put, avoiding negative experiences is a good thing whether you are a determined beginner or not.

When you have a beginner that wrecks old gear (and has to pay for that repair) in the first few outings before having real success, there is a higher likely hood that the beginner in question will not want to kite regardless of their personal level of determination. And older gear, especially since a beginner cannot tell the difference between "lightly used" and "end of lifespan" gear, IS MUCH MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING WRECKED BY A BEGINNER. Thus you are creating another chance for that beginner to have a bad experience, let alone the fact that the money saved on a new kite will go into repairing an old one, in the hands of a beginner.

With regards to the injury thing......well if you went out and broke your ankle and an arm due to a snapped bridal death spiral, but "your heart was in it" and you continued - you are either going to be an amazing kiter, or a newspaper obituary. Humans learn from their mistakes. In learning, we have a mechanism that stops us from doing some things, which others may be completely capable of doing, but we may not be able to. We stop ourselves typically when we find that we have the potential for a life ending or life altering injury. And yes, all boardsports carry risks, but the idea is to minimize them.

And LetsFlyaKite........you have my support.

User avatar
LetsFlyaKite
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 615
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:55 pm
Kiting since: 2015
Style: Aggressive
Gear: Nothing Yet
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Hawaii

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby LetsFlyaKite » Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:24 am

Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm
The "not everyone has a million dollars in the bank" statement is true, but not the argument that I posing. This true statement is something that you continue to repeatedly refer to when faced with the opposing argument. The opposing argument that you need to refute is that, "A new kite will have a warranty (worth money), will not have been previously abused or improperly repaired (worth money too), will fly correctly and if not - be warrantied, and will be at the peak of it's resistance to abuse (more valuable than money to a beginner). Specifically, referencing it's resistance to abuse, a new kite will not spend as much time (and money) getting repaired because of the likely beginner mistakes everyone makes on the water. This means more time on the water for the beginner with a new kite, and more money saved in the long run on those first two kites." Please take the above argument and present evidence against it. If you can present convincing evidence showing the above is not true, you will have refuted the argument and won. But continually presenting a "straw man" against this argument makes your argument seem indefensible.
Oooooooo, wow, a warranty! How nice!

And how long does a warranty last mr rich boy? 5 million years? Oh wait a minute, from the looks of the last kite I bought new it's only 6 months. How sad....

6 months. I don't even think my kite starts to fade in 6 months, I don't even think that's enough time for the canopy to start stretching. And you act like it's such a big deal to have a useless warranty.

And last I heard from a reputable shop owner, Cabrinha doesn't honor their warranty, and I'm also reading reports of Naish doing the same. The only company I've heard of a lifetime warranty is Best, and they are questionable right now since they might be going out of business.
Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm
And even if you do not comprehend the straw man references, could you clarify the above statement's applicability in this situation. I think we may have a time line issue here. By that I mean, we are talking about a beginner in this situation...no? He will specifically NOT HAVE the chance to get this experience before the purchase of his first few kites......right? Actually I completely agree with your above statement and it even supports my argument for buying new kites at first. I am thinking you may have mistyped this sentence, actually meaning something else. If not, then you agree with my position that a beginner does not have the capability to evaluate used gear at the point of first purchasing gear. Thus new kites at first is a good idea.
Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm
This shows that you are an intelligent person and a capable debater. To split my paragraph (linked ideas) into 2 parts is something that I would never think of. It is an excellent debate technique when arguing form a position of weakness if you do not get caught. But it is a strawman none the less. I never suggested that an inexperienced kiter give it a go in the surf. You split the quote right before I moved on to the fact that, while I kite old gear in the surf at my experience level, a beginner would destroy that gear on flatwater. The last statement is the one you need to refute, not claiming that I am saying a beginner give it a go in the surf. - I must say you have impressed me with this strawman. It was not hard to detect since I was looking for it, but most on this forum glance over long posts like yours and mine and never give them the scrutiny required to detect an out of context quote splice.

The last statement in the above by LFK is not really a strawman. It is an obviously true statement that is changing the argument to "how to buy used kites and/or repair them" that should be a completely separate thread. No one has really given any indication that they want to discuss this line of thinking. Rather, the debate is about having old gear that you have to fix (cheaper initially), vs having newer gear that you do not have to fix (more expensive initially). Debating old vs new is the subject. And given that it has been established the OP is a beginner, that also establishes that the OP is not capable of determining whether the used gear they are examining is in good condition or bad condition.
Like I said if he can afford to blow his money then let him. But for someone who doesn't have a lot of money who is trying to get in, do your homework before going out and buying a used kite. And what experience could a begginer possibly need when buying a used kite? Just make sure it doesn't leak and has no tears in it, how hard could that possibly be? You act like he needs a college education to buy a used kite. This isn't rocket science. The OP is not a retard...
Matteo V wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:40 pm
Which brings us to the third straw man. The argument is not about perseverance, the argument is about a beginner having a positive initial experience while on the path to just getting upwind. Simply put, avoiding negative experiences is a good thing whether you are a determined beginner or not.

When you have a beginner that wrecks old gear (and has to pay for that repair) in the first few outings before having real success, there is a higher likely hood that the beginner in question will not want to kite regardless of their personal level of determination. And older gear, especially since a beginner cannot tell the difference between "lightly used" and "end of lifespan" gear, IS MUCH MORE SUSCEPTIBLE TO BEING WRECKED BY A BEGINNER. Thus you are creating another chance for that beginner to have a bad experience, let alone the fact that the money saved on a new kite will go into repairing an old one, in the hands of a beginner.

With regards to the injury thing......well if you went out and broke your ankle and an arm due to a snapped bridal death spiral, but "your heart was in it" and you continued - you are either going to be an amazing kiter, or a newspaper obituary. Humans learn from their mistakes. In learning, we have a mechanism that stops us from doing some things, which others may be completely capable of doing, but we may not be able to. We stop ourselves typically when we find that we have the potential for a life ending or life altering injury. And yes, all boardsports carry risks, but the idea is to minimize them.

And LetsFlyaKite........you have my support.
Like I said earlier and a million times before that, if the begginer can afford to blow his money on new gear then let him. He will just replace it later anyway, and be out another 2000 dollars. No big deal when you're in the upper class part of the nation...

And with this injury thing, kiting is like an extreme sport. When you kite it means you accept all the risks that are involved. Agree with me on this? And by accepting the risks you also know that an educated kiter can keep those risks at a minimum because of his education. And this education has nothing to do with the kind of gear he's riding. A safe kiter will always avoid danger.

So I can understand you care about the OP and want him to be successful and all that, but it's complete overkill. I think the OP should buy used equipment to start out on. He can crash it, abuse it, lose it, and learn from his mistakes on it, and when he starts getting good, then buy the nice fancy kite and the nice fancy board. Because he will know what he wants and how to ride it without abusing it.

Matteo, it's been a good dispute, I'm sure the OP now knows the best way to go. But I appreciate your concern and thoughts for the OP, it shows a lot about the kind of person you are. Keep trying, and I'm always here if you need support. Have a good day.

Matteo V
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 684
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Local Beach: US, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas/Utah/Oregon Coast
Favorite Beaches: Ft. Stevens, North coast of Oregon
Style: Just like school in summertime
Gear: Delta Kites and LF Kitefish QuadMod
Snowboard (Cambered and Rockered)
Foil kites on the snow
Brand Affiliation: NONE F--- the corporate world

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby Matteo V » Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:17 am

LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
With a little bit of knowlege, that he will probably get later on anyway, he can make an educated decision when buying used gear.
LetsFlyaKite wrote:
Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:24 am
And what experience could a begginer possibly need when buying a used kite?
??????

jocol
Rare Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:29 pm
Kiting since: 2017
Gear: None
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby jocol » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:18 am

Hey guys! Thanks for your opinions! I knew my question of new vs used was difficult, but didnt expect it would bring such a "warm" discussion! :D
But thats why forums like this are here, right?

So, based on what I read I have decided to buy a new one! (good points from both sides, but thats my decision)
Any brand that you recommend?
And for each brand, any specific model more suitable for beginners? Or a "all round" model should be good for me?

Again, thanks for all your comments!!

or6
Frequent Poster
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 3:29 pm
Kiting since: 1998
Local Beach: Wijk aan zee, Zandmotor
Favorite Beaches: Muriwai NZ, El Medano Tenerife, la Ventana México, Hood River, Portland area, Vancouver Island, Wijk aan Zee, Moulay Bouzerktoun
Style: Waveriding, strictly strapless
Gear: RRD Religion 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9, Appletree Klokhouse Noseless 5'3"
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby or6 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:59 am

Jocol, If you are going for a new set (which I think is a good idea), just approach a shop. The ones I mentioned will help you out.

You don't have to shy away from last years kites, or even 2015 kites. Might save you a bundle!

But..if you want my advice, get a 'freeride' kite by one of the major brands. Or an 'allround' kite, as some of them call it.

If you understand any German, gleiten.tv does good reviews, I find. Might be good for some research, though as a beginner,, you might not understand all they are saying :-).

Regards, Or6

jocol
Rare Poster
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 5:29 pm
Kiting since: 2017
Gear: None
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Help/recommendations buy first kitesurf gear set

Postby jocol » Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:17 am

Nice! Thanks.
What about board size? I know the stores can help, but just want to have an idea of what I need.
I am 1.83m and 75kg. What would be a good size for me?
And how can a board size affect my kiteboarding performance?


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ramkiter and 17 guests