Switch Element5 vs Cabrinha Drifter

[mikelet]

Hello , i'm considering both kites in bigger sizes, asking for some feedback as not possible to try at my spot .
I weight 90 kg+ , experienced,mostly on surfboards strapless/ed
I know the turning and drifting potential of both kites , but want to compare them in terms of low end, upwind ,and freeride abilities...
I 'm after a 13m size for the mid/high teens, bug knowing that's not a popular size in kite brands i can Accept sugestions of powerful 12m that will fit the bill...
Thanks

[Dwight]

I've flown the 13m 2016 drifter and 13m element 5 a lot. I rate the element better on the 3 things you asked about. It's a more normal kite, meaning less performance compromised for wave riding.

[danidr]

I own the 2016 9m Drifter and the 7m Element V5. I agree completely with mikelet's comment. The Element is more powerful on the low end and has noticeable better glide/hangtime than the Drifter. It also loops with more power (in either bridle setting you can choose). Turning speed is similar, as in they're both quite fast! I enjoy the Element also in the strong winds with my twintip.

The 2016 Drifter drifts better than the Element which may or may not be a dealbraker for you (depends on your style at the waves). Supposedly, the 2018 Drifter was improved on lowend, jumping and freestyle, but I didn't try that one yet. Compared to the 2016 Drifter, the element is in between the Switchblade and Drifter in how good it drifts. If you surf on dead onshore conditions with a 13m, this could make a big difference.

Other notes:
- Both are very well built, but the Drifter is a bit more refined. Switch uses big panels and less of them, Drifter has smaller segments and should keep shape better with time. On the flipside, you can get two Elements for the price of a drifter.
- It could be harder to resell your Element than a Drifter.
- If you care about graphics (I don't care), I think the drifter is nicer to the eye (2016, 2017 and 2018). Switch has very simple/basic designs.

[mikelet]

Thanks for the info guys , that's what i was guessing about the Cab...
In the Med sea conditions i usually ride , side on beachbreaks and few cleaner points of hip to shoulder high waves in mid/high teens windrange, not that i need this amount of drift , but something more " slashy" and grunty with good upwind ....i can be going left surfing a wave drifting downwind and a second later turning right and linking turns top to bottom moving the Kite to get the most out of same wave...
Tried the FX in 14m and fits very well at my style but feel that if the board it's not super efficientIt It lacks upwind (way to thick LE???),IMHO Cabrinha should make a "deltish" FX called maybe the WX
Danidr: you' re right about Cabrinha smaller panels looking cleaner LE profile, that's what annoys me more about the Switch Element as in the videos It looks like wrinkled in this área ,i know quality construction and performance it's there maybe It's something inherent to this model....
Regarding graphics i'm with you ,call me mature at 41 yo but the simple the better , don't need to fly fluoro-pop arts or fancy tribals ...i think Switch is very well behaved in this aspect...
Regarding resale value , i don't bother about , if i like a Kite performance i tend to keep It some years with me...
Other options i'm interested in :

Core Free 13.5 : super interesting,but in another price league ..
Crazyfly Sculp 13: looks nice, reviews as grunty enough ,but not sure about turning ability for waves un this size
Peter Lynn Scape V6 13 : nice looking ,more freeride / freestyle oriented ??
North EVO 2018??? : Read somewhere It 's going 3 struts for 2018 ??,super interesting also ..release time????

What do you think?feedback welcomed on these models also..

[Matteo V]

you' re right about Cabrinha smaller panels looking cleaner LE profile, that's what annoys me more about the Switch Element as in the videos It looks like wrinkled in this área ,

Can anyone chime in, with actual knowledge - not just conjecture like I can make up on my own, on whether this is an issue of performance sacrificed for price??? It would be good to hear from a Switch rep on this. Is a wrinkle actual detrimental to flight characteristics within the performance envelope of a kiteboarding kite? "Struts to strutless" is how far we have come in kiting and it seems that controlling flapping or wrinkling is of no concern in the low/no strut kites. Were kite designers unnecessarily trying to eliminate flapping? Or was the goal just to sell next years kite with "we now controlled the flapping by adding another strut further out on this years model."

From my experiences with flying others Switch "Element's" and "Nitro's", I do not know panel structure is actually anything more than cosmetic (again - my conjecture). It kind of reminds me of the reason why surfboards look the way they do - they have to look good to sell. If you have a superior performing shape, but it looks ugly, it will never be sold. So most surfboards you see people riding are bad shapes for the conditions they are in because they purchased based on looks.

[danidr]

Tried the FX in 14m and fits very well at my style but feel that if the board it's not super efficientIt It lacks upwind (way to thick LE???),IMHO Cabrinha should make a "deltish" FX called maybe the WX
Danidr: you' re right about Cabrinha smaller panels looking cleaner LE profile, that's what annoys me more about the Switch Element as in the videos It looks like wrinkled in this área ,i know quality construction and performance it's there maybe It's something inherent to this model....
Regarding graphics i'm with you ,call me mature at 41 yo but the simple the better , don't need to fly fluoro-pop arts or fancy tribals ...i think Switch is very well behaved in this aspect...
Regarding resale value , i don't bother about , if i like a Kite performance i tend to keep It some years with me...
Other options i'm interested in :

Core Free 13.5 : super interesting,but in another price league ..
Crazyfly Sculp 13: looks nice, reviews as grunty enough ,but not sure about turning ability for waves un this size
Peter Lynn Scape V6 13 : nice looking ,more freeride / freestyle oriented ??
North EVO 2018??? : Read somewhere It 's going 3 struts for 2018 ??,super interesting also ..release time????

What do you think?feedback welcomed on these models also..

The 2016 drifter is similar in the low end the same way as the fx (I happen to have a 12m fx also) On the low end you have to generate apprent wind to get going.

As for wrinkles, it's not what I'm talking about. If you see an element flying from the front you will see the canopy doesn't curve the same way as the leading edge, which I suppose is because of fewer panels of material. Apart from that, the materials will stretch a bit, which I can tell on my drifter (even the sides now flap more than when new). It still flies ok but my understanding is that when using less panels the stretching will affect more the flying characteristics. Mind you, the switch flies nicely, it's all about aesthetics. If there really is a performance penalty I guess I'm not at a skill level where its relevant to me.

Honestly, for me it's not a big deal as I don't think the switch is going to wear twice as fast as a drifter, but a drifter does cost twice as much as a switch.

[iriejohn]

you' re right about Cabrinha smaller panels looking cleaner LE profile, that's what annoys me more about the Switch Element as in the videos It looks like wrinkled in this área ,

Can anyone chime in, with actual knowledge - not just conjecture like I can make up on my own*, on whether this is an issue of performance sacrificed for price??? It would be good to hear from a Switch rep on this. Is a wrinkle actual detrimental to flight characteristics within the performance envelope of a kiteboarding kite? "Struts to strutless" is how far we have come in kiting and it seems that controlling flapping or wrinkling is of no concern in the low/no strut kites. Were kite designers unnecessarily trying to eliminate flapping? Or was the goal just to sell next years kite with "we now controlled the flapping by adding another strut further out on this years model."

From my experiences with flying others Switch "Element's" and "Nitro's", I do not know panel structure is actually anything more than cosmetic (again - my conjecture). It kind of reminds me of the reason why surfboards look the way they do - they have to look good to sell. If you have a superior performing shape, but it looks ugly, it will never be sold. So most surfboards you see people riding are bad shapes for the conditions they are in because they purchased based on looks.

Do you have statistically significant evidence to support this hypothesis, or is this merely conjecture*?

[Matteo V]

Do you have statistically significant evidence to support this hypothesis, or is this merely conjecture*?

Ummmmmmm...........


Are you calling me out on me calling out myself on the fact that all I can apply is conjecture to this argument? I was trying to be honest and I either confused you, or you ARE calling me out on calling out myself. That would be..............don't know if there is a word for that one........but I will give it a try.........

antisincerity?????? call Webster up and ask them if we can add that one. But you still need to clarify your intent or confusion.

pro-shiting? maybe no hyphen?

anitunintentionalbewilderment? maybe needs to be split up into two words?

nonwillfulunobfuscation? I like this one the best!

Sorry, now I am just starting to sound like a prick even to myself. Bet there is a "how many friends I have" comment coming up.

[iriejohn]

Do you have statistically significant evidence to support this hypothesis, or is this merely conjecture*?

Ummmmmmm...........


Are you calling me out on me calling out myself on the fact that all I can apply is conjecture to this argument? I was trying to be honest and I either confused you, or you ARE calling me out on calling out myself. That would be..............don't know if there is a word for that one........but I will give it a try.........

antisincerity?????? call Webster up and ask them if we can add that one. But you still need to clarify your intent or confusion.

pro-shiting? maybe no hyphen?

anitunintentionalbewilderment? maybe needs to be split up into two words?

nonwillfulunobfuscation? I like this one the best!

Sorry, now I am just starting to sound like a prick even to myself. Bet there is a "how many friends I have" comment coming up.

Quality obfuscation.

[Matteo V]

Quality obfuscation.

Ya, see, I was trying to go for something that readily emphasized the double negative??????? was it only double???? maybe triple??? Oh, now I am even confused. Dammit......and there is no wind today.....this is all I am going to be able to think about all day.....

And I have a question on your original question -

Do you have statistically significant evidence to support this hypothesis.......

What σ are you looking for? Is 3σ ok? Or are we talking crazy accurate like 5σ?