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Don Monnot
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Hindenburg

Postby Don Monnot » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 am

Sometimes we get super gusty, shifty conditions, especially near shore. Sometimes when I get hit with a big shift in direction, my lines go slack and my kite hindenburgs. If it's a really bad shift, my kite will sometimes wind up upwind of me. That can get a little scary as the lines are then draped all around me.

Most of my kites are moderately high AR (3-4 yr old Ozone Edge and similar).

If I see it happening early enough, I'll pull in several feet of a steering line and loop the kite. Sometimes that works. If I miss the early stage, I usually yell an obscenity or two and try to watch and see if the kite flips around and inverts the lines.

Question for the group--after the initial stage (when all four lines are slack), is there anything you can do to stop the process or keep the kite from flipping around and inverting the lines?

Thanks.

Don

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Toby
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Toby » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:30 am

If slack it won't react on any steering.
I think what you do is already the best to get out of it.
But always be careful with your hands and fingers...bad things can happen when the kite powers up again.

Maybe a kite that is less stally helps...lighter on the front tube, if yours not already is. Also a high AR kite that has a good lift is more likely to shoot forward then a kite with less AR.

When I am in winds like this I am very aware of the gusts and immediately steer the kite to a direction to avoid the stall. Works better with a kite that has good bar feedback though.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby sarc » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:46 am

You need to think if you really want to kite in these conditions... sometimes is better to live to kite another day.

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rynhardt
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby rynhardt » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:04 pm

Don Monnot wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:17 am
Sometimes we get super gusty, shifty conditions, especially near shore. Sometimes when I get hit with a big shift in direction, my lines go slack and my kite hindenburgs. If it's a really bad shift, my kite will sometimes wind up upwind of me. That can get a little scary as the lines are then draped all around me.

Most of my kites are moderately high AR (3-4 yr old Ozone Edge and similar).

If I see it happening early enough, I'll pull in several feet of a steering line and loop the kite. Sometimes that works. If I miss the early stage, I usually yell an obscenity or two and try to watch and see if the kite flips around and inverts the lines.

Question for the group--after the initial stage (when all four lines are slack), is there anything you can do to stop the process or keep the kite from flipping around and inverting the lines?

Thanks.

Don
To answer your question, no. Slack lines means no control.

I kite gusty inland conditions, so experience similar conditions. Try and keep the kite lower in the window at all times, that way the kite drops quickly into the water once you get a lull or wind shift. If you do need to cross zenith, do so with a lot of speed in the kite, which will give you enough control to bring it down with some control if the wind drops out.

I prefer to use my BRM Cloud in very gusty conditions. Lots of depower for gusts, lots of drift for lulls. I suspect any good wave kite might give you similar options.

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby iriejohn » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:29 pm

Make sure you carry at least one easily accessible knife in case you need to cut yourself free (I actually carry two knives, one each side of my harness).

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Turbaani » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:40 pm

We get gusty wind more then steady wind. Never keep kite at zenith, keep it at 45degrees so if it starts to drop it wont hindenburg, it will start turning down and when falling it will generate some speed and should catch some wind and you can then downloop or just streer it back up. And if kite is shooting over the windwindow you just steer it back to wind window. Zenith is where the problems occur. Also if your kite is very prone to shoot out of wind window keep the bar sheeted in when you arent moving.

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cleepa
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby cleepa » Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:11 pm

Strutless kites are pretty awesome at handling this situation. When the nose of the kite dips, the canopy of a strutted kite is at quite an angle to the wind and gets pushed down out of the air instead of back into the window. With a strutless kite, the canopy luffs completely and drag acts to push the kite back into the wind window, where the kite powers up again instead of hindenburging. Their lighter weight also helps with this.

Of course, strutless kites may not suit your riding style...

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby Craz Z » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:07 pm

I found that if i hit the release when it begins the fall it sorts itself out 60% of the time. Otherwise if you know what to do a barflip is possible and has saved me from going back to shore. When it goes out on the front line you can pull on the leash really fast and initiate the safety faster as well.

Usually one outside line will wrap inside the front lines. You want to be careful not to induce a death wrap take your time and if it doesnt work just nurse it back to shore and fix it.

the ejection method has worked great as long as your swivel is not wrapped up from a shitty bearing and to many turns to one side. If the wind hovers it down from a hindenburg is when its vulnerable to a invert. Eject, let it sort out then pull in and reset, check lines, usually it works. If not a bar flip is in order. YOU may have to undo your leash which makes it a little nerve wracking but if your quick and get it right away its not a big deal. double leashes can also aide in this method.

When solo foiling im self rescuing each and everytime I land in sketchy rocky areas. I've become so accustomed to it that my kites take less and less wear from not landing on land it makes you super aware and confident, thats when i discovered that by using your safety alot you can sort out other problems like the hindenburg invert lightwind silliness. I don't think this would be used on coastal applications though. :D

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rynhardt
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Re: Hindenburg

Postby rynhardt » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:01 pm

cleepa wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:11 pm
Strutless kites are pretty awesome at handling this situation. When the nose of the kite dips, the canopy of a strutted kite is at quite an angle to the wind and gets pushed down out of the air instead of back into the window. With a strutless kite, the canopy luffs completely and drag acts to push the kite back into the wind window, where the kite powers up again instead of hindenburging. Their lighter weight also helps with this.

Of course, strutless kites may not suit your riding style...
:thumb:
When conditions are crappy I'm happy to live with the compromises of strutless kites.
When conditions are good I use my 5 strut high AR kites. 8)

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Re: Hindenburg

Postby jakemoore » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:21 pm

I doesn't have to be strutless. But do consider a lower aspect kite that does not go so close to the edge of the window. A super high aspect kite can find itself out of the window with just a change in direction. Also a lighter kite will drift better and less likely to fall. Would also consider one strut lightweight wave kites as a nice compromise. I think Flysurfer Speed 4 deluxe (lower aspect speed) was transcendental in its ability to recover after completely slack line. But the foils can be a pain if gusts are big because they don't depower or repower as fast as a tube. Finally, with the kite lines totally slack and the kite is upwind - I would definitely concentrate more on not getting wrapped than keeping the kite dry. Near shore with obstacles would be a safety release for me.


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