At last ... got to ride the Rebel (2018) and XR5 back to back

[ChickenD!ken]

Aren't most of the "pros" using a GTS for their megaloops?

GTS is the c-shape megalooper, yes. XR is still a better booster but the GTS gets serious hang time as well.

[Teabageppo]

Wind - about 26 to 32
Kite size - Both 9m
Bars - North click bar and the Sensor on the Core
Rider - 155 lbs

Overall I was extremely impressed with both kites. The wind was really gusty at times and felt really comfortable on each. Both also have alot of high end. I didn't have to depower each more than halfway. The Rebel felt "locked" in the sky; stability that is so good that it makes you want to push the boundaries of what you can do. The Core was solid as well but I felt like I had to keep my eye on it a bit more. That said, the Core is a tab bit more responsive and is definitely recommended to those wanting to megaloop. It may also turn a little faster but not much. When I did looping surface tricks (darkslides and such) on each kite the Rebel was a little easier. In terms of lift and boost, both are so good that it really depends upon the pilot. I didn't have a woo but my guess is that the hangtime was better on the Rebel but again this is probably because of the way I was flying the kite.

Consensus - Both kites are killer but (to me) the Rebel feels a bit more comfortable and has better hangtime. For those looking to megaloop or unhook a bit I think the XR will be for you. Try each out and let me know you're thoughts.
Cheers all,
Lm

In Summary I will say that Lindseym’s observations were very insightful and I concur. Read between the lines and you would do well to take note of his findings.

To hopefully add to the mix as well (although Lindseym has it pretty much nailed)

The four guys I test kites with happen to fly the Core XR5, the new North Evo and the new Core GTS (all 10m) at the same time. Someone sitting on the beach…just rotating through using TT’s and a brand new demo North Nugget… (to try and get a feel across two different board types).

We have tested the 10/13 2018 rebel a few times now.
I fly 8/10m 2017 rebels and the lads fly 2016/2017 dices and Evo’s for background.

We all hate the new Evo, so that’s that really. But that’s irrelevant to this thread.

We all really enjoyed the GTS, direct, awesome looping kite and of course will work for unhooking really well…not that we do that anymore, bodies to messed up now.


The XR5 Core: To put lindseym’s observations in a slightly different form I’d say like always there is a cost benefit between stability and versatility. The rebel still indeed feels more locked in the sky, in that you don’t have to concentrate as much on the throw and kite positioning when doing tricks up there. It gives you the confidence to do more than just jump big. And the rebel and X5 (and 2016/2017) evo will take you up there depending on the pilot.

Access to the vertical component of a jump is much easier on the 2018 rebel and the XR5 compared to the 2017 rebel.

But the hangtime on the 2017 rebel is noticeably better...more stable and more hangtime..which you would only notice if you take your tricks beyond the simple stuff.

I felt it to on the XR5…I had to pay more attention to the throw and the positioning..but you'd adjust to that over time.

BUT…the core is more versatile for sure. It actually has a little drift in it. It loops quite well and better than the new rebel actually... turns slightly faster, but same same really.

(but not as good …as the 2017 rebel…although the core was on the middle settings for each and I run my 2017 10m on the fast, light bar pressure settings…so again this needs more investigating).

But both kites have that High Y, strong connection between front and back line feel…that rock solid stability in the sky.

We have demoed literally hundreds of kites over the years and very very rarely do we say…this kite needs further investigating. It’s normally “nah not any better or generally worse than what we are riding”.

But all four of us said the XR5 needs further investigating, (and the mainly dice rider is gonna look into the GTS more). This is also probably due to the fact that we are appalled at what North has done to both the Evo and Rebel this year. Don’t like them one bit.

We liked the XR5. Definitely worth a ride. It is more of an all-rounder than the rebel I'd say especially in the beginner to intermediate hands, which is most riders.

But they are really both good big jumping, old school type kites that can handle wind at the top or even slightly beyond their designated wind range.

That's 5 struts for you.......evo...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I can only reiterate what I’ve said: the XR is not a kite you can sum up after a few minutes of riding. That’s like doing a lap of the car dealership parking lot and concluding on the handling qualities. It takes a little while to get a feel for the XR and I think that goes for pretty much every level of rider that tests it. Get a 12m out on the water in 18-26kts for a few hours and you will have your conclusion. You really need to try it out on a day when you can make the most of its high end attributes. When I say I’m not good enough to max the 9m, this is what I’m getting at. I’m perfectly happy boosting 12-15 meters but you just know this kite will go further and further if you put in the effort. I’m not interested in 20+ meter jumps or megalooping a bow kite for that matter, so giving it the beans on the 9m is really for riders that want to push the limits.

When you have been riding as long as I have, on as many kites as I have (since the early two line foil days), with three other very experienced riders, living in one of the windiest places on earth, I can assure you we don't need to ride a kite for long to work out what it's about. Shit, I owned the very original core XR and GTS kites way back...were you even riding then? Probably not. oh and before that anyone remember those GT delta kites??!!! Damn they went big..scary mother farqers.

Your excessive but obviously ignorant promotion of Core kites only is getting somewhat tiresome mate.

Ride for a few more years on a few more kites then get back to me...

The core kites are great kites but they are no better than lots of others.

You'd know that if you knew what you were talking about. But you don't....



I would suggest dear readers if you haven't worked it out already, this chicken Dick en dude is obviously promoting this Core brand far harder than a normal punter would.

[ChickenD!ken]

In Summary I will say that Lindseym’s observations were very insightful and I concur. Read between the lines and you would do well to take note of his findings.

To hopefully add to the mix as well (although Lindseym has it pretty much nailed)

The four guys I test kites with happen to fly the Core XR5, the new North Evo and the new Core GTS (all 10m) at the same time. Someone sitting on the beach…just rotating through using TT’s and a brand new demo North Nugget… (to try and get a feel across two different board types).

We have tested the 10/13 2018 rebel a few times now.
I fly 8/10m 2017 rebels and the lads fly 2016/2017 dices and Evo’s for background.

We all hate the new Evo, so that’s that really. But that’s irrelevant to this thread.

We all really enjoyed the GTS, direct, awesome looping kite and of course will work for unhooking really well…not that we do that anymore, bodies to messed up now.


The XR5 Core: To put lindseym’s observations in a slightly different form I’d say like always there is a cost benefit between stability and versatility. The rebel still indeed feels more locked in the sky, in that you don’t have to concentrate as much on the throw and kite positioning when doing tricks up there. It gives you the confidence to do more than just jump big. And the rebel and X5 (and 2016/2017) evo will take you up there depending on the pilot.

Access to the vertical component of a jump is much easier on the 2018 rebel and the XR5 compared to the 2017 rebel.

But the hangtime on the 2017 rebel is noticeably better...more stable and more hangtime..which you would only notice if you take your tricks beyond the simple stuff.

I felt it to on the XR5…I had to pay more attention to the throw and the positioning..but you'd adjust to that over time.

BUT…the core is more versatile for sure. It actually has a little drift in it. It loops quite well and better than the new rebel actually... turns slightly faster, but same same really.

(but not as good …as the 2017 rebel…although the core was on the middle settings for each and I run my 2017 10m on the fast, light bar pressure settings…so again this needs more investigating).

But both kites have that High Y, strong connection between front and back line feel…that rock solid stability in the sky.

We have demoed literally hundreds of kites over the years and very very rarely do we say…this kite needs further investigating. It’s normally “nah not any better or generally worse than what we are riding”.

But all four of us said the XR5 needs further investigating, (and the mainly dice rider is gonna look into the GTS more). This is also probably due to the fact that we are appalled at what North has done to both the Evo and Rebel this year. Don’t like them one bit.

We liked the XR5. Definitely worth a ride. It is more of an all-rounder than the rebel I'd say especially in the beginner to intermediate hands, which is most riders.

But they are really both good big jumping, old school type kites that can handle wind at the top or even slightly beyond their designated wind range.

That's 5 struts for you.......evo...grrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I can only reiterate what I’ve said: the XR is not a kite you can sum up after a few minutes of riding. That’s like doing a lap of the car dealership parking lot and concluding on the handling qualities. It takes a little while to get a feel for the XR and I think that goes for pretty much every level of rider that tests it. Get a 12m out on the water in 18-26kts for a few hours and you will have your conclusion. You really need to try it out on a day when you can make the most of its high end attributes. When I say I’m not good enough to max the 9m, this is what I’m getting at. I’m perfectly happy boosting 12-15 meters but you just know this kite will go further and further if you put in the effort. I’m not interested in 20+ meter jumps or megalooping a bow kite for that matter, so giving it the beans on the 9m is really for riders that want to push the limits.

When you have been riding as long as I have, on as many kites as I have (since the early two line foil days), with three other very experienced riders, living in one of the windiest places on earth, I can assure you we don't need to ride a kite for long to work out what it's about. Shit, I owned the very original core XR and GTS kites way back...were you even riding then? Probably not. oh and before that anyone remember those GT delta kites??!!! Damn they went big..scary mother farqers.

Your excessive but obviously ignorant promotion of Core kites only is getting somewhat tiresome mate.

Ride for a few more years on a few more kites then get back to me...

The core kites are great kites but they are no better than lots of others.

You'd know that if you knew what you were talking about. But you don't....



I would suggest dear readers if you haven't worked it out already, this chicken Dick en dude is obviously promoting this Core brand far harder than a normal punter would.

You’re a bit touchy, aren’t you. 2/3 of your post is just more moaning about North (again), prefixed with vague language like “read between the lines” (how does that help anyone looking to gain information?), spiced with a bunch of metaphorical dick measuring about your ‘crew’ and experience. People who won’t shut up about their status tend to talk a lot and say very little. To your “I rode the original Core kites!”: good for you. The GTS4 is barely comparable to the 3 just to give you one example, so I don’t know what you’re on about.

Since you’re misinformed about this, let me make it clear: Core is objectively “better than lots of others” and indeed better than most, there’s no doubt about that. Definite top 2 when you consider the package as a whole and their approach to product design. Not having a strong opinion on specific brands does not bolster your claim to expertise by the the way. Just makes you a wishy-washy relativist. And having a strong opinion on a specific manufacturer doesn’t make you a sponsored corporate shill either so try again. It amazes me how lazy you have to be to just throw shit like that, but whatever. Lighten up is my suggestion.

Incidentally, please do show me where I say the Rebel (or any other specific kite model for that matter) is objectively shit. I comment on the gear I know and I really couldn’t care less about you presuming on my motives. Very happy customer here who will talk up a great kite as much as I damn well please. And I’ll do it on whatever XR thread is ongoing. Feel free to blow right past if you don’t like it and/or can’t formulate an opposing argument. If all you’re capable of is insults that are meant to discredit, please just leave me alone.

Otherwise, do chime in with that comprehensive review you keep promising. Still waiting..

[DWX]

If you are missing out on the fun, that’s your problem. The Free is a great 3-strutter, comparable to the Dice, that’s the consensus, but most North riders are sworn on North and most Core riders on Core. They don’t really switch camps, and that’s fine. I happen to love my Core team and I value loyalty...

A 15 min demo can’t really tell you mich; maybe the conditions were wrong that day or you weren’t in the best frame of mind... lots of factors determine a good session, NOT just the material you are riding. No matter how experienced, the odds may still be against you.

Let’s get back to the original post! Thanks Lindsey, very insightful! Question: why do you need total stability for a smooth landing, unless you are jumping for WOO or KOTA? A faster kite is easier to steer downwind and low for a smooth landing. If your kite stays up at the zenith, you need to heliloop to land smooth, otherwise you’ll crash. Then again, faster kites loop better. The XR is now becoming more specialized, so the Free is a good option for a fun session... Sounds like XR was catching up with Rebel & I’m trying to understand the logic behind a lead ball in the wind window

Any kite you position wrong in the wind window will flap, ANY KITE, Letsfly! Your skills may be deficient...

[alexeyga]

Interesting thread...

Chicken-Core-pimpen, dude you're really overdoing it, ease up a bit.

I had a chance to ride the XR5 11m during our last trip to South, was really impressed with Core's quality - their stuff is simply the reference for the whole industry. Though I'm still questioning how the famous German engineering was able to come up with an inflate valve which requires a separate part to inserted into it to deflate the kite... A neoprene cap for the inflate valve would have been nice as well to keep the sand away.
As far as XR5 goes - this is an awesome kite - as long as you know where it excels and where it falls short. I used to own the XR3 in 10m which I unloaded because I came to hate the way it was looping and it was a real shame because this kite is so good at everything else (drifting aside). XR5 hasn't really made much progress in that regard - oh it loops alright! Just don't bet your life on this kite doing it the way you want it to.
When I switched back to my personal kite (sorry, no brands or names - I'm not paid like some d@cks around here to be pimping) which plays on the same field with GTS and Dice - it felt sooooooo good.

Really not my cup of tea, but wish they had them when I was a green-mouthed beginner.

[DWX]

Interesting thread...

Chicken-Core-pimpen, dude you're really overdoing it, ease up a bit.

I had a chance to ride the XR5 11m during our last trip to South, was really impressed with Core's quality - their stuff is simply the reference for the whole industry. Though I'm still questioning how the famous German engineering was able to come up with an inflate valve which requires a separate part to inserted into it to deflate the kite... A neoprene cap for the inflate valve would have been nice as well to keep the sand away.
As far as XR5 goes - this is an awesome kite - as long as you know where it excels and where it falls short. I used to own the XR3 in 10m which I unloaded because I came to hate the way it was looping and it was a real shame because this kite is so good at everything else (drifting aside). XR5 hasn't really made much progress in that regard - oh it loops alright! Just don't bet your life on this kite doing it the way you want it to.
When I switched back to my personal kite (sorry, no brands or names - I'm not paid like some d@cks around here to be pimping) which plays on the same field with GTS and Dice - it felt sooooooo good.

Really not my cup of tea, but wish they had them when I was a green-mouthed beginner.

I don’t think anyone is pimping kites here... Ppl feel strongly about their chosen kites and talk about them... it’s what the forum is about.

I wish someone would answer my question: why do you need a kite that doesn’t move? I mean Rebel & XR5. What’s the secret. Honest question!!!

Another question no one answered was how does a tow up work, I mean Nick’s latest escapade. I read it had a 500m tow line, but how does it work. Can’t explain it to myself.

And I wish ppl would stop getting testy with me and for once have a decent conversation. I’m curious and share experience... no idea why it offends ppl that I write, ride, and God forbid why on earth am riding you-know-which-brand (shhhh don’t mention the name!)

[alexeyga]

I don’t think anyone is pimping kites here... Ppl feel strongly about their chosen kites and talk about them... it’s what the forum is about.

I wish someone would answer my question: why do you need a kite that doesn’t move? I mean Rebel & XR5. What’s the secret. Honest question!!!

Another question no one answered was how does a tow up work, I mean Nick’s latest escapade. I read it had a 500m tow line, but how does it work. Can’t explain it to myself.

And I wish ppl would stop getting testy with me and for once have a decent conversation. I’m curious and share experience... no idea why it offends ppl that I write, ride, and God forbid why on earth am riding you-know-which-brand (shhhh don’t mention the name!)

Have you ever contemplated a though that your userpic is creepy?

On a serious note though - regarding the kites that don't move.... that wasn't my feeling with XR5, more like "wtf this thing is moving when I'm telling it to stay put???!!!!" When my c-shaped kite just sits there, XR5 has a tendency to creep down (as if it's nose-heavy) and requires active input to keep it where I want it to be.

I haven't tested the Rebel since 2012 - not my cup of tea either - so I wouldn't know if it wants to move or not... But I think I know where you're getting at.

On the other hand - we had a dude on our crew who has one seriously impatient character - hes riding definitely has been improving with sluggish kites...

[iriejohn]

... how does a tow up work, I mean Nick’s latest escapade. I read it had a 500m tow line, but how does it work. Can’t explain it to myself.

Since you evidently don't understand how wings develop lift you should sell all your kite gear and instead do something that you do understand.

[PullStrings]

my husband loves his xr5 19

Is that your husband we see in your user pic ?.........if not is he posting on KF ?...maybe you are both posting using same DWX !

[kjorn]

... how does a tow up work, I mean Nick’s latest escapade. I read it had a 500m tow line, but how does it work. Can’t explain it to myself.

Since you evidently don't understand how wings develop lift you should sell all your kite gear and instead do something that you do understand.

Ha! Seriously though, imagine tying a barbie doll half way up your lines. It goes way up in the air. Now, in your mind replace barbie with you, and put a boat at the other end