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Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

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edt
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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby edt » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:32 am

Yes. You can't be sure about the time, how hot the filament is, how much pressure all those sorts of things you have to experiment with until you get it right not like there is some cookbook that tells you exact times temperatures and pressure. By hand it is very difficult with the impulse sealer at least if you figure it out once you can repeat it again pretty easy and you can remember the settings you used.

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby William Munney » Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:56 am

edt wrote:Yes. You can't be sure about the time, how hot the filament is, how much pressure all those sorts of things you have to experiment with until you get it right not like there is some cookbook that tells you exact times temperatures and pressure. By hand it is very difficult with the impulse sealer at least if you figure it out once you can repeat it again pretty easy and you can remember the settings you used.


If you're sealing the end of a bladder at least you have a couple of chances as if it is a few inches shorter it should still work.

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby dracop » Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:57 am

Haha, if its a few inches shorter I won't need to patch as the original hole is a only couple of inches short of the edge.

If I order the roll, I was going to experiment on that in trying to create seams, see if I can create an airpocket. Although Tear Aid is thicker than the original bladder..

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby edt » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:13 am

dracop wrote:Haha, if its a few inches shorter I won't need to patch as the original hole is a only couple of inches short of the edge.

If I order the roll, I was going to experiment on that in trying to create seams, see if I can create an airpocket. Although Tear Aid is thicker than the original bladder..


Hmm. That's a good idea. You don't have to patch the original hole, just make a new seam behind it. A few inches is fine, the bladder will stretch that much.

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby GregK » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:26 am

If the bladder is generously over-sized for length ( and some are 6 - 8 inches longer than needed ) then you may be able to just weld a new seam inboard of the bubble and avoid having to deal with patching that bubble/bulge.

Lay your kite out flat with no air in the bladder, secure the kite at the first strut inboard on the damaged side, pull the bladder out gently until the bladder is tight. The amount of bladder coming out of the end flap is your excess. You need about 1 - 2 inches beyond the end flap ( which should be tucked back into the LE ) so that the bladder is not tight lengthwise anywhere, beyond that it's just extra film that bunches on itself somewhere inside the fabric pocket. I would not make it any shorter or you risk it coming unsecured from the end flap or stretching and bulging usually at a point in the wingtip where the LE curves sharply.

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby dracop » Mon Jun 23, 2014 4:44 pm

Ok I ordered the Impulse Sealer and the roll of Tear Aid, good thing I have Amazon Prime.

I will attempt to seal near the original seal as practice and go down to the point past the bubble as I get more proficient. Sealing past the bubble means it does not matter if I get the patches done correctly, but the extra room offers abit of practice. (The Tear Aid is so I can test whether or not the seam holds - the existing patch was actually holding rock hard air pressure before the seam blew. It'll be there in the future if I need a larger patch, seems like a good material to have a standing supply of).

If all else fails I can always buy the new bladder, but I anticipate kiting for a long time so may as well figure this out, especially since I am not missing any wind atm.

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby William Munney » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:39 pm

dracop wrote:Ok I ordered the Impulse Sealer and the roll of Tear Aid, good thing I have Amazon Prime.

I will attempt to seal near the original seal as practice and go down to the point past the bubble as I get more proficient. Sealing past the bubble means it does not matter if I get the patches done correctly, but the extra room offers abit of practice. (The Tear Aid is so I can test whether or not the seam holds - the existing patch was actually holding rock hard air pressure before the seam blew. It'll be there in the future if I need a larger patch, seems like a good material to have a standing supply of).

If all else fails I can always buy the new bladder, but I anticipate kiting for a long time so may as well figure this out, especially since I am not missing any wind atm.


Did you try the impulse sealer and how did it work out?

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby dracop » Fri Jul 11, 2014 5:58 pm

I did try out the impulse sealer over the last three days The impulse sealer itself works like a charm. I bought the 8inch $30 one off of Amazon altho I strongly recommend the 12" one if anyone is considering it.

It did not solve my problem because every time I pumped the kite up to the pressure I liked, it would blow out another hole, albeit never on the seam I had sealed with the impulse sealer. At this point the tip of the bladder is expanding alot to make up for the 5 inches I have gone down to seal past the prior holes/patches, so the bladder is getting stretchy and weak near the tip. The whole tip of the bladder going down about 6" has this abused creased look instead of smooth PU plastic look like the rest of the bladder.

I have given up on trying to fix this bladder myself and will look for a replacement bladder. Patches are really hard to apply without a second person to stretch out the bladder fabric unless its a small hole and you can get some air pressure in the bladder. The seams with the impulse sealer work great, none of them have blown out despite putting the bladder under pressure. The bladder material on the wingtip area is just too weak at this point and keeps blowing out at new spots before I can get the struts solid while pumping to test.

I will have pictures later, I had been hoping to fix this before my trip to Cabarete but no cigar. I am hoping my 12m can carry me while there, using a smaller 145 cm x 44 and larger 165x44 board to compensate for wind (Im down to about 222 lbs). Not sure if anyone in Cabarete would have a replacement bladder at a reasonable cost, its not really liquid force territory. I had wanted to use my 16m for morning sessions.

Gotta say,trying to fix this bladder was a very frustrating experience. Seal, pack it, pump it up (this is alot of work on a 16m x 4 strut kite), let it sit 15min only to hear that pop telling me it failed, then deflating and setting patching/sealing the section that failed. Did this like 12 times :(

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby Tiago1973 » Fri Jul 11, 2014 6:46 pm

didn´t the went through the whole talk, in micro holes i just throw baby powder, works like a charm

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Re: Need help with Bladder micro-puncture

Postby William Munney » Fri Jul 11, 2014 7:06 pm

Tiago1973 wrote:didn´t the went through the whole talk, in micro holes i just throw baby powder, works like a charm


Not sure what you mean, baby powder inside the bladder?


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