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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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BWD
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby BWD » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:02 pm

[Double post]
Last edited by BWD on Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

BWD
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby BWD » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:10 pm

borist wrote:
Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:29 am
oops, meant to add this link http://www.snowkiting.cz/Clanky/recenze ... -komoru-na


Image

Looks cool, interesting to see the appearance of the exrados. Is the max thickness swept far back at the tips?
Washout/reflex?
How does the foil shape vary across the span?
Any thoughts?

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:09 pm

Just understand what the translator shows, but I think the photo with him riding the alpine foil is as real with the mono mounted (just check foot position) as these are his groupies :wink:

Image

But sounds he knows what he is doing, so hope he stays tuned to it and will be successful.


@fun2kite:
IMHO don't even expect the scubajet is powerful enough, maybe to keep riding with minimum speed on a good foil if you're light but not more. But a propulsion and also the tube around wont replace a stabi from its effect. Even worse a bad controlled propulsion will make foiling even more difficult than a kite in gusty conditions. A kite has a great stabilizing effect. Just to take both hands of the bar on a monofoil is not easy, just check in my video how fast I take the hands back. And I am sure I wouldn't be able to use a monofoil without kite, it would be like coasting (foot of) on a extra high unicycle, never seen. :wink:

jaros
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby jaros » Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:59 pm

How about a forward swept mono wing?
forward swept wing.jpg

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:29 pm

Hmmm interesting, it will have more vortex drag and tip stall easy, but if the tips has higher aoi (and it overall has higher AR as otherwise the vortex will counteract the higher aoi), it would stabilize the wing just like a swept wing with washout (less aoi at the tips) is stable.

OR, one could use an "S" profile with positive pitching moment, on a more straight wing (a stable wing, no need for a stabilizer).

There ARE some different known options indeed :naughty:

8) PF

ronnie
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ronnie » Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:11 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:29 pm
Hmmm interesting, it will have more vortex drag and tip stall easy, but if the tips has higher aoi (and it overall has higher AR as otherwise the vortex will counteract the higher aoi), it would stabilize the wing just like a swept wing with washout (less aoi at the tips) is stable.

OR, one could use an "S" profile with positive pitching moment, on a more straight wing (a stable wing, no need for a stabilizer).

There ARE some different known options indeed :naughty:

8) PF
When the speed increases, there would be greater lift, causing twist which should increase the angle of attack of the tips, generating even more lift?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Apr 20, 2017 6:26 am

Not really, as we are talking about stiff glass or carbon wings for hydrofoiling, so not the same "classic" aircraft issues.

Tipstall is probably not the same problem as in flight either, for hydrofoiling - so the forward sweep could be tried yes, to see if possible to get working.

Otherwise a more straight wing with an S profile (being self stable) as said, would definitely work, having a wide chord at the centre for the mast to attach so you dont need a fuselage at all.

8) PF

jaros
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby jaros » Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:36 am

Otherwise a more straight wing with an S profile (being self stable) as said, would definitely work, having a wide chord at the centre for the mast to attach so you dont need a fuselage at all.
Hi Peter,
Could you put this in a simple picture, as example?
Thanks,
Jaros

BWD
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby BWD » Thu Apr 20, 2017 3:58 pm

Isn't yaw stability the main concern?
It seems like a balance between mast and tip vortices would influence the center the monofoil rotates around in yaw.

Wouldn't a straighter wing shorten the longitudinal distance between these and make yaw control harder?

Wouldn't a forward swept wing have a problem with the yaw center moving abruptly when the upper tip breaches the surface?

It seems like the aft swept example pictured is a more practical platform.

The use of "S" or reflex profile seems viable. The picture of the swept foil seems to suggest there is no reflex at the tips, though, rather a washout or maybe an aft-shifted maximum thickness. Intuitively it would seem the place for reflex would be near the strut, where the chord affords plenty of area and the reflex might help mitigate turbulence around the strut to wing joint (although this area on the pictured foil doesn't appear to be so refined).

All very interesting...


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