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North launches a foil kite

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jaros
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby jaros » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:52 pm

Still so funny that nearly all the big brands that refused soft kites (at least on water) for more than 15 years, now go or go back to foil kites as it has been in the beginning of kiting (few might remember there have been much more water foil kites on the market than tubes around 2000):
That is funny indeed!. It took so long, that allmast all big foil-kite brands launched their line of tube kites, and some even lost interest in developing foil kites. I wonder if foil kites would dissapear from water for good, if some small brand (I am not sure if Elf was the first?) managed to show the big players what can be done?
Greetings,
Jaros

kiterocky
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby kiterocky » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:16 pm

They will disappear again... :D :D

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Starsky
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby Starsky » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:02 pm

They for sure work, and really really really well but the issue for most free ride kiters is that they work so completely differently from tube kites.

Most LEI riders will be happier with the newer generation of strutless and single strut kites for everything but ultra low end hydrofoiling.

jaros
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby jaros » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:45 pm

I do not have any foil kite, but I am sure they are here to stay. At least for as long as there will be foil racers and extreme low wind seekers. For what i do and what i need (freeriding in 8knots and more), strutless kites suite me perfect.

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Kamikuza
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:35 am

I don't understand how you believe a lot of stuff, but you do anyway :D

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Horst Sergio
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:02 pm

jaros wrote:That is funny indeed!. It took so long, that allmast all big foil-kite brands launched their line of tube kites, and some even lost interest in developing foil kites. I wonder if foil kites would dissapear from water for good, if some small brand (I am not sure if Elf was the first?) managed to show the big players what can be done?
Greetings,
Jaros
Interesting question, if soft kites would have come back if brands like flysurfer and peter lynn wouldn't have go one focusing on soft kites around 2002 when the market switched fast from soft kites to tubes.
I think there have been just those two brands producing a numerable amount of foil kites (and maybe just flysurfer the classic design) for the water, continuously from 2000 till today.
Not sure but think ELF didn't exist or produce water foils 15 years ago, do they?

But there are also some small brands from 2000 which didn't totally disappear in this time and since 5-2 years starts to come back in the water soft kite section as seen here: advance, but also HQ or Concept Air (think they helped construction the liquid force "Elite") But many other small brands completely died in this time as quadrifoil, windtools, windart (around 2006 tried the last proto that was never finished)

Also if there have always been open cell soft kites also with depower as the north husky (around 2004) for land. I am sure it would have taken much longer for soft kites to come back, but they would have come back with foil boards development in every case. I also share the opinion that one or zero struter are a better solution in normal light winds for many people, but there is just no way to combine very light wind high performance and early flying without light weight soft kite design. So they come back to stay for sure, but not just for that. I think one big reason why they disappeared was the undefined and in 2002 for sure much more dangerous starting and relaunching behavior. Which is now improved, but still more a question of right usage which is still more complicated but can be learned. And it is worth to learn to handle and start them the right way especially in high wind:

If you never used a today high performance foil kite you wouldn't believe, but I can relaunch and ride my 6 m² sonics for sure before I can relaunch and ride my 9 m² zero struter at around 8 knts, but while a 9 m² zero struter starts to be uncomfortable above 24 knts but for sure at 30 knts, I have often used 6 m² foil kites at gusts over 40 knts, which is a bit scary when the whole structure starts to shake, but works without to much pull. And if you use a good 5th line on a soft kite you can also land them save above 30 knts. But for sure if not very experienced, better never use soft kites above 30 knts, I got myself a 5 m² tube for those conditions.

But for very good riders having today more than one foil kite for the whole windrange of nice relaxed wind (8-33 knts) is less about need but more about luxury (jumping high at 10 knts, etc.). :D

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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby gwicke » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:02 am

North Ace projected AR is around 5.43, between Chrono v2 and Diablo v2.

Here is a spreadsheet with the data for a couple more foils: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

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stefarius
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby stefarius » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:40 am

:thumb:

Regis-de-giens
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sun Feb 19, 2017 1:19 pm

Your table is really great. How did you obtain the values for projected areas ? It is hard to find this.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: North launches a foil kite

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:38 pm

Hi everybody,

back from a nice kiting session including a very short try of the Advance/North Ace. The following is not a final test report, as too short impression, but a first note of thoughts.
Two friends tried the 17,5 m² and me the 11,5 m² all on twin tips around 10-15 knts. Before testing we had a short look on the kite and removed the line elongations, so just on 18 m lines + bridle, which may have caused some impressions as normally I use 24 m. First conclusion of all three pretty experienced soft kiter was similar. The following is what I remember:
Apart from the cloth which looked thinner (not measured the weight and light wind performance) some construction details looked similar to the Ozone Chrono v1. Especially the complete bridle and mixer is pretty similar from the material, on some points a bit more love to details as extra cover on some bridle line ends, but a very similar if not the same thin and gray material, which was rightly exchanged by Ozone after the first models by the same but colored material as the grey one is nearly invisible on most grounds, hope North will do the same. And also like Ozone (and a very bit also flysurfer) there are some unnecessary tangling points especially on the line connectors.
Didn't look in the inside but just on the drainage and unfavorable it is thin like on the ozone kites (flysurfer fits three fingers, and still two on the small sonics, Chrono and Ace fits one, one small finger). I launched the kite first time assembling in the water and it works pretty good at around 12 knts. The kite didn't absorb to much water so the drainage didn't have to do to much. Also relaunched it reward and also worked good. At this point and also many others the kite tended to roll in the ears pretty early also when flying and if you don't care it maybe don't stop but the hole kite can collapse beginning with one ear. Normally riding a foil kite you would sheet in or oversheet to prevent this behavior, but high (not too high) holding forces are making this possibility more difficult.
The bar has a tiny loop, so the overall loop length should be around 19 cm so similar to what flysurfer actually uses. Didn't like the always swinging end of the 1:4 trimmer setup (which constructions length seemed to be mixed up a bit) but on the end actually nearly every brand starts to use this strange setup, who knows why.
The power/m² feels pretty good and also the very view jumps I did felt nice. The turning radius felt a bit wider but one reason for that impression may have been the shorter lines. On the other hand there is that high Y which is, as said before not so good for a good turning soft kite. Therefore the feel for the turning is not so super direct but for the power it is, due to the a bit higher forces, think higher than chrono v1. Upwind didn't feel close to sonic or chrono but I was on a twintip and if you normally ride foilboards ... you know :D

So far, my first very short thoughts, think a kite anybody how wants to elongate, especially his north quiver with a high Y bar, to low wind, can buy, but should have some experience with foil kites as for sure not the easiest one, felt more unstable with the short lines than the sonic, I used directly after.

@gwicke: indeed useful table :D


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