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Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

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Starsky
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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Starsky » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 pm

kiterocky wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 pm
If Wind pick up i dont need foil but surf or twintip... Again some have tested?
Have you foiled??

You get spoiled by a foil and the better you get on one the less likely you are to jump back onto your old boards. Conditions really have to be good. Windy is not enough. If its at all choppy..... foil. If its dead onshore.......foil. Gusty..... foil.

Im' genuinely interested to see how many times I ride my other boards this year.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby windmaker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:12 am

kiterocky wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 pm
Ok in this 3 page of comment no one have tested a ierofoil.. But i know they sell many.. Anyone? Maybe some People want only jump with 8 10 knot and twintip.... If u want speed and race buy a regular foil... Personaly Im only interest in some relax freestyle when the Wind its too much light.. If Wind pick up i dont need foil but surf or twintip... Again some have tested? Thanku
As I said previously in this thread I tested the Brunotti TT foil last summer and so have a few others on my local beach. It was brought here by the dealer as a demo.
As far as I know zero sold to this day, but you answered your own question. How come with so many ierofoils "sold" no one has bought or let alone tested one on a international kitefoil forum ? Maybe all we need is just one person to say yes it is great go buy one but so far it is not happening. You want to be the first?

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby bragnouff » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:38 am

kiterocky wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:48 pm
(...) Maybe some People want only jump with 8 10 knot and twintip.... If u want speed and race buy a regular foil... Personaly Im only interest in some relax freestyle when the Wind its too much light.. If Wind pick up i dont need foil but surf or twintip...
I think you miss the point that the reason a foil lets you ride in lighter winds than usual comes down precisely to the low drag of it, and the fact it lets you go fast and therefore generate apparent wind. If your foil is inefficient and draggy, partially due to the fact that the strut and one wing operates backwards, you're not going to benefit much from the foil. If you need the same amount of power from your kite on your TTFoil as on your TT, it's going to get old pretty quickly, once the novelty of being higher on the water wears out. If you still need that 17m in 8-10kts to get moving on your TTfoil, there's more fun available without the foil on that same kite (enjoy the shallows, do the odd trick without that extra weight, throw the board around without fear, no hassles to carry it, etc...)

To me that's the main (and only) purpose/appeal of a foil, being able to go at good speed in winds that would normally require two sizes up. All the rest (cost, awkwardness, weight, danger,...) is essentially hassles that you deal with and accept because they come as prerequisites for achieving that goal. That goal can also be reformulated (for others) as riding a kite two sizes down from what you'd use normally. If the foil efficiency isn't up to the task, why bother?

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby tegirinenashi » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:24 am

This has been discussed to the death, but to reiterate: the drag shouldn't be a problem for properly designed twin tip hydrofoil. A symmetric wing and mast profile would be just marginally less efficient than the ideal (tea drop) shape. In fact, the "mass-produced" LF aluminum mast has relatively sharp front with almost symmetrical profile. One have to look carefully in order not to assemble it backwards! Admittedly, the front wing profile is less symmetric, but it still features relatively sharp leading edge. Apparently, having slight deviation from the ideal shape doesn't matter much.

Now, you can suggest that having sharp both front and back edges is not ideal from safety perspective, and this would be a valid argument. Moreover, you can argue that symmetric design would be less stable (and, therefore, more difficult to master). However, unless we are talking racing, the alleged twin tip HF performance inferiority due to noticeably increased drag is a myth.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby bragnouff » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:45 am

tegirinenashi wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:24 am
performance inferiority due to noticeably increased drag is a myth.
How could that possibly be a myth?
One of my last sessions, for a while, I found that I had to move my kite a bit more to keep my speed up and stay on the foil, as if the wind had dropped a notch, and found out eventually that there was a 5cm blade of grass wedged between the fuselage and rear stab. Drag does matter! The performance we're talking about here is ability to extend lower windrange, and difference is already very perceivable between different (directional) foils.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:37 am

socommk23 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:35 pm
Ok you may not like the idea because its not ultimate high performance. But not everything has to be.
How about just fun. Maybe a stepping stone to get people interested in foiling.
Hey isn't that my line?

People are perverse. There'll always be some chump who thinks doing things the hard way and the wrong way and reinventing the wheel is being open-minded.

And there'll always be enterprising folk who'll indulge the chumps and sell them gold-plated soup forks.

It's OK to be interested in evolutionary dead-ends but don't expect anyone with actual experience or knowledge on the topic to give your flights of fancy the respect you think they deserve ;)
Last edited by Kamikuza on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:42 am

tegirinenashi wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:24 am
This has been discussed to the death, but to reiterate: the drag shouldn't be a problem for properly designed twin tip hydrofoil. A symmetric wing and mast profile would be just marginally less efficient than the ideal (tea drop) shape. In fact, the "mass-produced" LF aluminum mast has relatively sharp front with almost symmetrical profile. One have to look carefully in order not to assemble it backwards! Admittedly, the front wing profile is less symmetric, but it still features relatively sharp leading edge. Apparently, having slight deviation from the ideal shape doesn't matter much.

Now, you can suggest that having sharp both front and back edges is not ideal from safety perspective, and this would be a valid argument. Moreover, you can argue that symmetric design would be less stable (and, therefore, more difficult to master). However, unless we are talking racing, the alleged twin tip HF performance inferiority due to noticeably increased drag is a myth.
You'd have to be very impaired to mistake which way around the LF mast goes...

Drag is critical.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby windmaker » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:41 am

tegirinenashi wrote:
Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:24 am
However, unless we are talking racing, the alleged twin tip HF performance inferiority due to noticeably increased drag is a myth.
No offense but you are seriously out of your depth...

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby SparD » Tue Mar 21, 2017 9:54 am

I tested the ierofoil last summer, my thoughts here...

I switched foils on the water with one of the conceptors. The foil I was using at that moment was a Ketos Easy on a strapless board, the conceptor of the ierofoil was not able to ride my foil.

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Re: Twintip hydrofoil?? Any news test??

Postby Kamikuza » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:55 pm

Starsky wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:47 pm
You get spoiled by a foil
Oh how true that is!


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