Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

How does your bar handle center line Twists?

forum for kitesurfers


User avatar
ShaveTheWhales
Frequent Poster
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Naish, Epic, F-one, Shinn
Brand Affiliation: Anything that jumps well and fun to fly

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Fri May 19, 2017 1:33 pm

Yeah nothing worse than the 'droop' after full power :cool2:

User avatar
Starsky
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 4374
Joined: Mon Apr 19, 2004 12:12 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Ontario

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby Starsky » Fri May 19, 2017 2:54 pm

Have had many and still have a stock bar with a swivel. Can honestly say they aren't necessary, and I bet that many would prefer not having them once they get used to it. My foil/wave bars don't have em. I don't do a lot of rotations, but I loop the kite a ton. Do it in both directions and it kind of sorts itself. What actually takes more effort, reaching up to smack a stuck swivel, or glancing at your lines every once and a while and deciding to downloop the next transition. My most used kites prior to foiling were C kite with no swivels. Looped em plenty and do all kinds of rotations when riding them. Think their safety system is reliable with a crap load of spins, but I somehow manage to keep it to under 4 at any one time.

Swivels are like adjustable bar ends. Intellectually it sounds like a fantastic and even necessary thing, but in practice, once used to it, I much prefer not having it. Same with stopper balls, and chicken loop sticks. It astounds me how dependent on the chicken loop lock people are. These are beginner level gadgets designed for those who don't really have the wherewithal to fully understand and manage line tension. The whole thread about launching unhooked is testament. Lose the chicken loop lock and by default your holding the CL by the quick release every single time you launch. From chicken loop lock, to swivel and most other bar features between are complexities rooted more in marketing than function.

User avatar
CaptainArgh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2771
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Style: freeride, surf, slicks, dwindr exploring
Gear: SS RPM 6, SST 8/10 and Rally 12
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby CaptainArgh » Fri May 19, 2017 3:13 pm

Starsky wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 2:54 pm
Have had many and still have a stock bar with a swivel. Can honestly say they aren't necessary, and I bet that many would prefer not having them once they get used to it. My foil/wave bars don't have em. I don't do a lot of rotations, but I loop the kite a ton. Do it in both directions and it kind of sorts itself. What actually takes more effort, reaching up to smack a stuck swivel, or glancing at your lines every once and a while and deciding to downloop the next transition...
You're 100% correct of course. As others have said, we don't hear the pro riders complaining about swivels either, it's a non-issue for them.

Thing is, I don't get out as much as you and definitely not anywhere near the hours a career kiter gets. I'm not in the minority here, as it's clear many of us are just so charged up to hit the waves when the rest of life's obligations line up to let us out, and we don't want to worry about twists. Here is the situation from an infrequent weekend warrior kiter with regards to your comments about equalizing downloops so it all sorts itself out;

I almost always downloop on the inside. That's where there is current, white wash and often a wave bearing down and I'm looking for an opening to get back out. I want the sustained pull to keep maneuvering and get out without giving up too much ground. When I'm on the outside, I almost never downloop. I'm looking for a wave to drop in on (in my best weekend warrior attempt) and it's tactical, I don't want any downwind pull that looping the kite can give me. Just a light transition, direction change, and boom... back on a wave. <sigh> (my blood pressure just dropped thinking about it. so fun.)

There's probably a more efficient way to deal with it and I'd love to hear it, but today, I end up with twists building up. Used to be I was counting loops so I could catch up on the outside. Now that I have a below the bar swivel I rotate by hand if/when they build up. Just wanted to see what other options are out there. This thread has brought some great discussion and perspective from folks with different gear and experiences. Good stuff! Thanks for all the inputs. :thumb:

User avatar
CaptainArgh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2771
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Style: freeride, surf, slicks, dwindr exploring
Gear: SS RPM 6, SST 8/10 and Rally 12
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby CaptainArgh » Fri May 19, 2017 4:33 pm

And if you fly with a camera line mount, you can even get twists above the camera, below the camera, AND below the swivel... all at the same time! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Good times. :)

NorCalNomad
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 757
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2014 4:40 am
Kiting since: 1900
Local Beach: San Francisco
Gear: Why should it matter?

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby NorCalNomad » Fri May 19, 2017 4:51 pm

downunder wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 am
^
What he says.

Swivel problems? Nah....

Spinning a bearing with no load = jack shit

User avatar
CaptainArgh
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 2771
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2003 7:06 pm
Kiting since: 2004
Style: freeride, surf, slicks, dwindr exploring
Gear: SS RPM 6, SST 8/10 and Rally 12
Location: MD
Contact:

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby CaptainArgh » Fri May 19, 2017 10:04 pm

NorCalNomad wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:51 pm
...Spinning a bearing with no load = jack shit
:lol: That was my experience when I bought the Wainman swivel. I was like, "damn! this thing really is smooth." Then I installed it and it wasn't any different than the one it replaced in practice.

I suppose also, different kite designs put varying rotational forces on the swivel... based on the amount of force on the center lines vs. the back lines, and how high/low the split is where you place the thing. That could be why a swivel may work great on some kites and bad on others. There was a time when I thought my swivel worked better on either my small kites or my large kites (of the same brand) but forget which was better at this point...

User avatar
downunder
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1113
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:16 am
Kiting since: 1970
Gear: building my own
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby downunder » Sat May 20, 2017 3:03 am

NorCalNomad wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:51 pm
downunder wrote:
Fri May 19, 2017 4:55 am
^
What he says.

Swivel problems? Nah....

Spinning a bearing with no load = jack shit
Buy yourself an swivel which doesn't spin than.

Post the results here after...And your diminishing comments are noted.

User avatar
ShaveTheWhales
Frequent Poster
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:28 pm
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Naish, Epic, F-one, Shinn
Brand Affiliation: Anything that jumps well and fun to fly

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby ShaveTheWhales » Sat May 20, 2017 5:08 am

This is the old video of the Mutiny kite swivels I use.
Its clearly the best design - by proof.
3-4 years of having to put up with Not touching, twisting, or pulling anything.

That's thousands of jumps, loops, megaloops, down turns and rotations bla bla bla

When its time to hit that safety - guess whos lines has NO twists in it ?

Now please somebody explain what is wrong with a "Quality" twist free swivel ???

https://youtu.be/n2FX9LBgktc

User avatar
POACHER
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1047
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:48 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Style: freeride/freestyle
Gear: All kinds.
Location: Gichigami

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby POACHER » Sat May 20, 2017 3:11 pm

Alright Whale Shaver, I know you are sitting on a bunch of these Mutiny swivels........so out with it.

Name your price. :cash:

iriejohn
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 775
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:04 pm
Kiting since: 0
Local Beach: West Sussex
Gear: this 'n that
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: South coast, UK

Re: How does your bar handle center line Twists?

Postby iriejohn » Sat May 20, 2017 9:10 pm

Was out yesterday and while later rinsing the swivel thought that what it needs is a bit of lubrication. Suddenly realised that I use a superb lubricant spray on the chains of our motorbikes - Wurth Dry Chain Lube!

Before I went out today I gave the Slingshot swivel a squirt of it - perfect automatic untwisting during the session! :thumb:

Image
Wurth wrote:Specification

Transparent, high-pressure resistant, highly adhesive lubricant.
Prevents running noise and wear.
Forms a quick-drying, tough-elastic lubricating and protective film.
Does not attack Peruban O-rings.
Resistant to water, steam, acids and bases.
Protects against corrosion.
Targeted dosing to inaccessible locations also possible.
Can also be applied to running machinery, since the user's hands always remain outside the hazard zone.

Notice

Shortly after being sprayed on, the product forms a highly effective, wax-based lubricating film, thereby ensuring optimum protection against lubrication.


Return to “Kitesurfing”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], ChickenD!ken, Google [Bot], kjorn, tegirinenashi, Xtream and 31 guests